40m to balance the books countdown

Whilst there are calls for Investment it's also critical we stay financially healthy. One common theme of teams that plummet through the leagues is debt burden.  Despite parachute money we will be 40 m short of balancing the books. This thread will track player movements and relate it to the shortfall.

With that said
Abraham cost 5m last season and is now gone
Sanches cost 7.5m
KI 3m wages

Needed to balance books: 24.5 million
Verbal_D_Auria
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Comments

  • Throw into the equation a drop in matchday revenue, corporate hospitality etc. for starters
  • Colin, already factored, the shortfall was 36m so I added 4 for that whihc might be a bit short but I dont know the exact numbers so this will be all approximation
  • My understanding is that almost all of the first team squad have relegation wage cuts built in so that should help. 
  • How much are we getting for Mesa, and salary savings?
  • @SpeakerJack ; Mesa 7m pounds spread over 3 years, and, approx 2m wages per year savings
  • @garythenotrashcougar Gary not sure how much the pay cuts are so I cant factor that in. I'll just look at that as x amount of bonus cash flow
    @enaitch true, i didnt count him as he was only a few months expenditure as opposed to a years worth
  • Was 24.5 m short. With Leon & Rangels wages off the books its now approx 21m to balance books

  • @SpeakerJack ; Can you post that link here again that showed the teams wages etc
  • So if Jordan goes and I hope he doesnt. That will be another 5.5m towards balancing the books. Paying approx 1m for him in transfer fee , then getting 4m per year in fees in and saving his 2.6m wages
  • Yes that sounds right depending on the actual transfer fee.
  • Relegation clause reduction of 60% for HJ
  • We haven't balanced the books for over 3 years, our wage bill has already been cut in half, by the time they sell Alfie, Fab and Fernadez we will be in pocket, minus the boards dividends  oh F...K back in debt
  • @Phillip Bold statements all. Presumably this is after the 6 players who have already gone from the first team. Can you share your Maths.

    Unlikely to be a dividends as that will entail laying the Trust 21% of the value.
  • Dividends, consultants fees, agents fees, concocted figures will appear but hidden with various companies set up each paying small dividends.

    Directors  placed in family and friends names each receiving low incomes, players paid a wage as a limited company avoiding any Nat Insurance and tax from the Swans.

    This is how big companies do it, large corporations have a small number of employed staff and numerous workers as limited company or through agencies who also do the same.

    Completely legal however the Inland Revenue are trying to stop it but its difficult especially with off shore accounts.

    I doubt very much if the Swans have many players actually working as PAYE, if so the tax returns would be much higher.

    Probably the only PAYE will be the youth squad.

    Will HJ and crew show how much tax they should have paid on their sell out, it will not be anything like it should.

    The larger the amounts the easier it becomes to skim off, it would take an army of tax inspectors to get to the bottom of all the fixes but as long as the IR receive some revenue they will never take it on

    With so many football teams all supposedly making a loss, then why do so many unsavoury wheeler dealers want to get on board.

    Simple, asset strip, pay back what you borrowed and ship out, The yanks are masters at it, show me a team with US consortium members who have succeeded, ask Villa and Sunderland, the yanks have gone and they start from scratch again.

    As for 60% clauses that's what QPR, Norwich, Hull had, only we were the only club daft enough to buy them.

    Our top players are the only ones worth selling, then we are left with some players who are well versed with relegation and average players we will be lucky to give away.

    Which ever way its painted certain people have made millions, some have never even been to this country never mind seen a game.

    We are now left by peoples greed, shit owners, a shit board, 60% overpaid average players and 15,000 regulars put through 3 years of misery.

    As for the maths, any good accountant will only submit what is given to him, that's why they always have a clause accepting no liability on figures submitted to them.

    For those that dont want to face reality, we the paying public have been well and truly shafted, stop thinking about clauses, 60% cuts, what they say they have lost, look at the big picture with all the supposed loses, have HJ and crew and the yanks personal bank accounts increased the answer is HJ and co by multi millions and the yanks as well.

    All the borrowing of Peter to pay Paul has been happening but every time a piece falls off to accidently pay someone else, that's reality, although its a smaller scale, it no different to what HJ borrowed to pay Petty off.

    Petty made 50,000 HJ made 50,000,000

     

  • @Phillip An interesting series of accusations but little in the way of Maths backing any of it up.

    While I can understand the level of frustration with the incompetence we have seen, accusing virtually everyone of fraud may be missing the point.

    They are cr*p at running football clubs. Any money they have made will be dwarfed by the loss they have suffered from relegation.

    Im not prepared to let them off the hook that easily just to say they are crooks. I don't believe it. Incompetent, yes, absent, yes, ignorant of what is required, yes, but lets stop the name calling when there is no evidence of it at all.
  • @Phillip An interesting series of accusations but little in the way of Maths backing any of it up.

    While I can understand the level of frustration with the incompetence we have seen, accusing virtually everyone of fraud may be missing the point.

    They are cr*p at running football clubs. Any money they have made will be dwarfed by the loss they have suffered from relegation.

    Im not prepared to let them off the hook that easily just to say they are crooks. I don't believe it. Incompetent, yes, absent, yes, ignorant of what is required, yes, but lets stop the name calling when there is no evidence of it at all.
    Sorry mate, Philip is the reincarnation of the Less Lust man. Well meaning but on another planet. Possibly the same planet as Andrew (1&2) but with a misfunctioning calculator.
  • @Cadleigh I will listen to everyone, everyone is entitled to their opinions.....but not to their facts. This is a hotch potch of random issues most of which are based on inaccurate national newspaper reporting and a touch of animosity.

    We have real problems to solve and the truth is the Americans didn't bring them they were already here, caused by poor decision making. Selling the club to the US investors has just exacerbated the issues.
    CadleighJackareme
  • with our 28 absent owners across the pond not really caring about their (not our ) club only about the buck what do you expect? no leadership no information, seemingly no plans a or b no manager, no d o f, , it pains me to say it but we look a total shambles totally avoidable, either just total incompetence  or total indifference they just dont seem to care.
    For all the good work the old board have done until ML left they must carry the can not only H J but ALL the sellers who have put us in this position where our club is no more
  • Unless the 28 want to spend time in the slammer, no money will be leaving these shores, I think the way Phillip calls it, its called embezzlement, even American law frown upon that.
    They have been here 2 years and not one cent has been taken out other than the odd flight and hotel bill. (they don't come over often enough for that to make an indent on the balance sheet).
  • Phillip
    That would be about it, many seem to think the only way to take money from a company is dividends, how wrong they are. As for audited accounts, they are utterly meaningless, they work with the figures they are presented with, forget the audited bit.
  • Andrew2 said:
    Phillip
    That would be about it, many seem to think the only way to take money from a company is dividends, how wrong they are. As for audited accounts, they are utterly meaningless, they work with the figures they are presented with, forget the audited bit.
    Correct, plenty of ways to take money out but most of it is fraudulent, in business, especially large businesses you don’t fanny about with scraps, im sure there’s a plan to sell the club in the future for a lot more than it was purchased, granted, relegation wasn’t part of that plan but they know they need to get us back to make serious money.
  • Look at it from whatever tinted glasses you have, yes I believe people have worked around the angles and have made vast amounts, hedge funding , etc. but whichever way you look at it for all the money coming in, not one of these 28 have spent any of their money on the club.

    Poor decisions, what a joke, in any other legitimate organisation it would be deemed gross misconduct after the first cock up.

    The money they paid HJ for his shares does not come out of their pocket, it has come from the sale of players and TV.

    To make it any clearer, if the Yanks declared their bank statements before the sale and after, it will show they paid nothing up front.

    In 2 years the income has exceeded the outgoings, so ffs where is the yanks investment, fact there isn't any and never will be.

    As soon as they have made a handsome profit and they will in the next 2 years, they will be off.

    We are facing the same dilemma as AV and Sunderland, we have already done what they did 2 to 3 seasons ago with the same results.

    Unless something is done now, we wont be as lucky as AV as they can generate far more at the gate.

    Embezzlement, fraud, poor decisions, call it what you will but we are in a far worse state now than before the yanks came in.

    If and its a big if, we were in such a poor state 2 years ago (but we weren't ) why didn't HJ make a statement and say, unless we sell we are f,,,d, no he waited laced his pockets and left us even worse off.

    Everyone needs to wake up, the sale made HJ better off NOT the Swans

  • Actually I think that is libellous as well as wrong.

    Of course the Americans paid Jenkins et al for their shares with their own money. And no doubt when (if) they make a profit on their investment they will move on (but maybe not as soon as two years). The rest of it is just incorrect. If I were Jim I’d be worried about publishing statements like that to be honest.

    Also I have to say I love Andrew’s argument: they are taking money out of the club but they are doing it in such a clever way that none of us can see it. Of course! The evidence of their guilt is the very fact that there is no evidence - proves how evil they are! I am sure similar arguments have been used to demonstrate the existence of the Illuminati.
    SpeakerJack
  • Guys this thread was supposed to be a way of approximating whether we balance the books somewhat ie adjust to the fact we will have 40m less coming in this year. It is not a thread for trashing management, board, old board.
  • I blame Cadleigh for that Martyn!
  • The presence of a committe of ordinary people in the form of the Trust makes it very appealing to people of a leftist persuasion. "Honest as the day is long" artisans on one side and 'money grabbing Americans with their lackey Welsh millionaire twicers' on the other. Rejoice a new battleground for left right pollitics. That's why the Trust could not sell despite the fact it was the obviously the best thing to do. If they cross the pollitical divide and cease to become artisan success story (rejoice says the Guardian) and end up in bed with the Judas lackies, they themselves become sell outs like all good sucessful red haired Welsh socialists. 
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