Testing the levels of optimism

We are promised more "tough medicine" in January, and personally I am praying that this means the "moving on" of players, particularly high earners, who are not contributing much. By this I mean a conveyor belt out of town for the following: Dyer Routledge Bony Carroll Narsingh etc. Hopefully NOT a fire sale of more talent like Roberts Rodon Celina McBurnie James etc.
So here are my questions:
First do you trust current ownership to pick the correct players to "let go"?
Second what is the level of confidence that we can augment the squad given whatever scraps of funding might be made available?
on the latter point I was extremely excited that Graham Billy Kyle etc . had the Midas touch on recruitment However, one short transfer window later at best the jury remains out. Celina is class (but needs a break) McKay has shown flashes, but Asoro and John have been (lets say) slower to make an impact.
Interested in what fellow posters think is the likely end game when the window slams shut at the end of January?
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Comments

  • Jackareme,
    it remains to be seen what the tough medicine really means and I would like to think that if Dyer, Routs and Narsingh move on in January, plus a club coming in for Wilf, then that will be sufficient for the owners.

    What we aren’t aware of though is if the tough medicine includes purely the savings in wages alone or does it mean millions of pounds coming into the club via transfer fees, and the only players who will command those millions are from our young brigade.

    There are no other players apart from the youngsters that will command transfer fees as I expect Dyer, Routs and Narsingh to go for free.

    As for selling any of the youngsters, I would think that there would be a huge reaction from the fans, but should neither of the old guard move on then the owners I feel will make it public they have no alternative.

    I have confidence in the current squad maintaining at least a top twelve place come next May but I can’t honestly see millions being thrown at new recruitment while I also think that HJ still has an input into recommending players to sign with Declan John an example. Can you honestly see GP warranting paying £600k for John when he doesn’t even play him. 

    For me, Asoro is raw and has time on his side but McKay and John are examples of bringing in players from the Scottish leagues. Not good enough. As for Shankland, if he wasn’t good enough last year on trial why should we sign him now when he was available on a free transfer. 
  • Apparently someone mentioned today that they were thinking of signing him then loaning him back to Ayr as he wants to help them gain promotion . I won’t use the phrase I said to this person but there’s no f in Xmas 
  • Colin, but did they consider Shankland not good enough for the PL, and they expected to stay in the top division.

    And then this season, they didnt follow up, because they ran out of cash, and were looking at him as a free anyway?

    Whichever way, we'd be taking a punt, but I dont see his transfer fee being that high, so maybe worth that gamble?
  • Mark
    he came at the start of last season and trialled with our U23s not with the first team. 
    Even though he is scoring for fun in the Scottish Championship and struggled to get games in the Scottish PL, I just wonder 
  • There are good players in Scotland - but over the years we seem to have put many of our eggs in that basket - and it is a huge leap to the Premier league/championship. I am a huge fan of Socks, but his continued presence in and around the national team (at this stage of his career)  tells you everything you should need to know about the depth of talent north of the border.
    To be honest I was expecting some very up and coming Scandinavian talent from the current regime (Asoro I guess).
  • edited December 3
    I'm surprised that anyone is wondering what the board will do next when they sold anything that wasn't bolted to the floor last summer. And for less the market value in most cases.

    They will shift on any player for whom they receive even a bare minimum bid. 

    It could be one of the old guard, if so great, but equally it could be one of our promising youngsters.

    Let me put it another way. Let's say someone was daft enough to put £3m on the table for, say, Dan James. A raw work in progress with huge potential to be worth 3 or 4 times as much in a few years' time, but who cost us nothing, do you think they'd turn it down? Not on your nelly!
    Jackareme
  • Gary

    Not sure what you mean by someone being daft enough to put £3m on the table for Dan. I would think that's very possible
  • With hardly any communication from the top and the way the owners are treating the  fan base voice on the board am not holding my breath an any incomings in Jan, some of us said before a ball was kicked in anger that this group was not big enough nor had the experiance needed in this div, and as well as the youngsters are and have done to date  this is the time of the season that those arguments are coming to bear fruit where both depth and quality are lacking these young sters need to be looked after and given recovery times , and rest, but this squad cannot cope with it. ( as well as they are trying some are starting to look a little jaded) For me the manager and his team of coaches are doing a fair job  but when the manager asked for Woods and he was turned down  spoke volumes for me about this new ownership, and they have don e NOTHING to improve them selves in supporters eyes to date  so guys and gals we have what we have
  • I do not consider moving on Dyer, Routs or Narsingh to be an issue, all three seem surplus to requirements, I would say that all three are better than the wingers brought in by Potter but they have youth on their side and wages are sensible.
    I can't see Bony going, who's going to pay £100k a week for someone no yet up to speed, if we take a hit then we might as well keep him. 
  • deekay said:
    Gary

    Not sure what you mean by someone being daft enough to put £3m on the table for Dan. I would think that's very possible
    I say it's daft Deekay because as much as I like the boy and he's got so much potential, there's no way he's worth that kind of money... yet. But if someone was willing to pay it, this lot wouldn't think "he could be worth £10m in four years time" they'll just take it. They'll see it as £3m profit. In fact I think they'd probably take any sum in the high six figures.
  • Perhaps the owners are thinking on the lines of failing to get the true worth of the players that left in the last window and hoping to get millions for any of the young brigade. Who knows!!!
  • Gary

    I have to disagree that Dan isn't worth £3m yet. Remember, we paid £2m for Asoro and he has been nowhere near as successful as Dan. There are numerous examples of players being sold for more than £3m and failing spectacularly, many of them bought by HJ. Imho, for many clubs, Dan, a young British player with bags of potential, is well worth a punt at £3m

  • Dan has hot that most important commodity in modern day football-blinding pace, and for those coaches that feel they can add another ten percent to Dan's game, then £3m us an absolute steal.
  • January sales to continue off the back of the summer fire sale of course. 
    Celina, James, Ollie
    whoever can make a mill here or a couple there.
    throw overboard anything which could sink the ship will be their plan...
  • IF the youngsters are sold in either of the next two windows, having signed new contracts, for anything other than really stupid money, I would expect the owners, past and present, will have to beef up their security. 

    The Jack2aKing "Army" will be out in force, making what happened to Petty seem like Mary Poppins!

    There will be some very angry people out there.
  • The youngsters extending their contracts can be viewed by glass half full and glass half empty . Perhaps under Potter the owners want to build a team around these guys to improve and compete at the top end of the table in coming seasons or want that extra few quid with extended contracts and international appearances. Only time will tell  :hushed:
  • The Americans and old board have a mountain to climb for anyone to be anything other than cynical about their motives, they have been that untrustworthy and opaque.
  • Their incompetence only surpassed by greed, nothing would surprise in January no matter how ludicrous.mid table this season would be a good result for GP
  • The only line you need to remember going into January is Kaplan and Levien's "there will be more hard medicine ahead".

    If anyone thinks that means anything other than more selling of the family silver, they're living in cloud cuckoo land.
  • They're not talking about themselves either when it comes to who has to swallow the hard medicine. From their perspective, James, Roberts, and Rodon will be far easier to shift than Bony, Routledge and Dyer.
  • where has this "tough medicine" quote come from?
  • That’s the interview in September which is old news I haven’t seen it mentioned in the press lately or am I missing something ?
  • I don’t understand the point of this thread. None of you are prepared to actually propose any action that might make a difference, all you do is agonise over the possible negative outcomes. It’s boring.
  • IF the youngsters are sold in either of the next two windows, having signed new contracts, for anything other than really stupid money, I would expect the owners, past and present, will have to beef up their security. 

    The Jack2aKing "Army" will be out in force, making what happened to Petty seem like Mary Poppins!

    There will be some very angry people out there.
    Ooh, that’s like Boris Johnson making veiled threats about anger on the streets if Brexit gets overturned. 

    Boris is a busted flush, a pathetic echo of someone who once had a career in politics. He knows it, but he is so desperate he is pulling the Oswald Moseley card.

    Not saying you are in the same bracket Mark but do you REALLY think the vodka cornflake brigade is going to corner K&L in the Harry Griffiths Bar this time? 

    Dream on
  • The Harry Griffiths bar, wow, that takes me back to the time when you could mingle with the opposing manager and playing squad after the game. Now, our opponents and even our own players can’t get into the stadium quick enough!
    Yes, we certainly have moved on.
  • Cadleigh said:
    I don’t understand the point of this thread. None of you are prepared to actually propose any action that might make a difference, all you do is agonise over the possible negative outcomes. It’s boring.
    Awesome post @Cadleigh I always appreciate your ability to add value to a conversation. The thread was actually entitled "testing the levels of optimism" - Posters have helped gauge the level of positivity through their comments - it does what it says on the tin.
    DubDragon
  • I'm optimistic we can build something with this squad but still concerned for the future. We still need to offload some wages it seems so let's get it done, but not at the detriment of the future of the club e.g. offload Narsingh not Rodin.

    @Cadleigh it's a discussion of opinions. Hopefully The Board have discussed transfers months ago and have a plan and we're just a bit late to the party, discussing the possibilities.

    Can anyone remember if the level of communication from The Board was better or worse during our rise through the league's(2.0)?


  • You know the film Armageddon where Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck save the world from a giant meteorite hurtling towards the earth?

    What they didn’t show you was the Internet forum where people were debating whose fault it was, and why the strategy for saving the earth was doomed to fail, and why even if that meteorite was stopped there’d be another one even bigger following on shortly. Can you see where I’m heading here?
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