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McBurnie gone

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  • rob_h said:
    I've heard the bid for McBurnie 17/18m plus add ons
    not enough in my book. he's worth more to us than that - unless of course we cant get rid of Ayew 
  • No to add ons because we won't get the money 2mn / 3mn if the Blades stay up..not going to get the money Sell on clause..perhaps But we need a straight cash deal if it's going to happen
  • With the salaries added back we at have at worst a £6m/£7m imbalance this year, and then we have 3 players surplus to requirements, only one of which has played any time with our team.

    So we are selling Oli to pay for their salaries, as the expectation must be they arent going anywhere. Which of them will pitch in with 20 goals and what will the others be doing?

    This isnt unpalatable, its selling the season down the river before it has begun.
  • If or when Oli goes the blame will lie with the previous board of directors buying a host of useless mercenaries. The Americans through Trevor Birch are I suppose trying to get the club in to a positive equity with a view to selling...

    Player wise if Borja, Andre and Montero are still on the payroll after the deadline put them in the squad and play them. In fairness to Borja he has given the impression that he wants to play for us...

  • Cadleigh said:
    So you are saying we should have sold accepted their first offer and sold Oli for £15m? In order to get the deal done early? At which point JA would still have been on the books too.

    If their intention was that that he would be sold, and they were holding out until the last minute of the transfer window to get the most they could for him, then yes, we should have sold him earlier for £15m so that we could have more time to replace, and for any new player to get some pre-season with us.

    Problem we will have if we get £20m, is that anyone we are interested in buying, their club will be aware that we have lots of money and they will be wanting more.

    If we do sell him to Sheffield, going by the way the club operates  it will probably be very near to the deadline. Even if they do sell quick, all of the optimism for the season will lost.
  • 20 million all up front or tell them to get stuffed

  • @rob_h Quite agree, another season will either enhance his value or may get us promotion.

    If we do decide to sell, then it tells us the club have given up on achieving this year. 

    ________________________________________

    I find it quite staggering that you would think that keeping Oli would result in a promotion challenge when:

    - We still don't have a goalkeeper worthy of the name.

    - We still haven't replaced the gaps in the squad left by the departures of Bony, Fer, James and Narsingh (and I mean that in terms of numbers, never mind quality). The squad is threadbare.

    - The club have a stated transfer policy of only signing loan players and free agents (i.e. cheap and cheerful)

    On what planet does that constitute a promotion challenge, with or without McBurnie?
    enaitch
  • Cooper’s behaviour in pre-season and Birch’s statements all suggest one thing: they were planning to keep Oli and offload Borja, Ayew and Montero.

    They have sensibly given Borja game time in order to keep him fit and keep him in the shop window to increase the chances of selling him and to ensure he can play a part if we can’t shift him. It is looking increasingly likely to me that he will still be with us when the season starts (although we could still sell him to a Spanish side after the season starts I think).

    i simply don’t accept that Cooper gave such a key role to Oli in pre-season knowing we planned to sell him, or that Birch would employ that strategy either with the knowledge of, or behind the back of, Cooper, Curtis and Britton.

    No conspiracies. If he goes, it’ll be because we have been unable to shift Ayew and Montero, both of whom had poor seasons last time.  
  • If Oli is sold, then its to keep the money, not spend any, otherwise why sell? If thats not the case then we dont need to sell because we dont need to keep the money.

    Even if a couple of miilion is made available, what will it buy and who will sell to us knowing we have trousered £15m+, for a couple of million. Hardly likely to be ready made replacement and of course, how long will it take to buy and be match ready, end of August if we are lucky, so we go into the Hull match and the first month of the season  with no match fit goalscorer, because Ayew and Borja arent fit to play a whole match, CBR seems to have vanished, so we are left with playing Routs up front.

    Routs will do his best always but lets not pretend its anything other than a disaster, and good luck selling any more season tickets or having a big crowd for the Hull match.
    JoH
  • If Oli is sold, then its to keep the money, not spend any, otherwise why sell? If thats not the case then we dont need to sell because we dont need to keep the money.

    Even if a couple of miilion is made available, what will it buy and who will sell to us knowing we have trousered £15m+, for a couple of million. Hardly likely to be ready made replacement and of course, how long will it take to buy and be match ready, end of August if we are lucky, so we go into the Hull match and the first month of the season  with no match fit goalscorer, because Ayew and Borja arent fit to play a whole match, CBR seems to have vanished, so we are left with playing Routs up front.

    Routs will do his best always but lets not pretend its anything other than a disaster, and good luck selling any more season tickets or having a big crowd for the Hull match.

  • I find it quite staggering that you would think that keeping Oli would result in a promotion challenge when:

    - We still don't have a goalkeeper worthy of the name.

    - We still haven't replaced the gaps in the squad left by the departures of Bony, Fer, James and Narsingh (and I mean that in terms of numbers, never mind quality). The squad is threadbare.

    - The club have a stated transfer policy of only signing loan players and free agents (i.e. cheap and cheerful)

    On what planet does that constitute a promotion challenge, with or without McBurnie?

    If you are correct that keeping McBurnie would not constitute a promotion push, that would say by losing him, we could finishing near the bottom of the division this season?

    Where do you think we would finish without Mcburnie?
  • Cadleigh said:

    No conspiracies. If he goes, it’ll be because we have been unable to shift Ayew and Montero, both of whom had poor seasons last time.  
    I completely agree.

    And if he goes, maybe it will be a nice little wake up call to those who still appear to be under the laughable impression that the club are serious about a top flight return.

    It was, is, and always will be about making sure the damage to their own pockets is minimised first. To them, if the football doesn't suffer that's great, but it's just a bonus. Good God, as if the evidence of this happening when we were in the Premier League wasn't already enough.

    If you said to them would you rather be breaking even in League One, or making a manageable loss (within FFP rules) whilst trying to compete in the Championship, then anyone kidding themselves they'd go for option 2 wants their head examined.
    JoH
  • If Oli is sold, then its to keep the money, not spend any, otherwise why sell? If thats not the case then we dont need to sell because we dont need to keep the money.



    If the club waits until near the end of the transfer window to sell, there would probably be no time to replace. Could it be that's the way they want it, they will have a great excuse why they can't spend any of the money they make:  asset stripping
  • Borja is suddenly plucked from training with the u23's to being given game time at the same time as Sheff first bid is coming. Tells me Borja will be our number 9 at this point if Ollies goes

    Also I do not see us buying a new striker, there was no recruitment team in place so the only sensible way of replacing him is getting a loan from the big boys. That will give the new recruitment team time to make the replacements next summer when we will need 2 strikers as Borjas contract will be done
  • Cadleigh said:
    rob_h said:
    It is our clubs MO the way this McBurnie deal is going. They wait until near the end of the transfer window to get as much as they can, and in doing so they completely mess up our season, and ruin all the good atmosphere at the club.

    They have a track record of not replacing with similar quality, if he goes, we will just have an average season maybe 14th or lower.

    Without Mcburnie, I can also see attendances drop by 2k or 3k a game. It will end up being of no benefit to selling him
    So you are saying we should have sold accepted their first offer and sold Oli for £15m? In order to get the deal done early? At which point JA would still have been on the books too.
    The first offer was £10m. If we'd accepted that the same people complaining about leaving it late would have been fuming about how desperate our owners were to cash in.

    £18m is a lot of money at this level. Too good to turn down from a business perspective, and not devastating from a footballing one either if it means we can keep Borja. Not ideal but that's football in the second tier.
    Cadleigh
  • And if he goes, maybe it will be a nice little wake up call to those who still appear to be under the laughable impression that the club are serious about a top flight return.

    It was, is, and always will be about making sure the damage to their own pockets is minimised first. To them, if the football doesn't suffer that's great, but it's just a bonus. Good God, as if the evidence of this happening when we were in the Premier League wasn't already enough.

    If you said to them would you rather be breaking even in League One, or making a manageable loss (within FFP rules) whilst trying to compete in the Championship, then anyone kidding themselves they'd go for option 2 wants their head examined.

    I agree, they seem only interested in selling our best assets, it's back to the Tony Petty days.
  • ps bradford city have a 15% sell on clause
  • Don't forget Bradford get %15 of any profit made on Mcburnie.

  • edited July 29
    rob_h said:

    I find it quite staggering that you would think that keeping Oli would result in a promotion challenge when:

    - We still don't have a goalkeeper worthy of the name.

    - We still haven't replaced the gaps in the squad left by the departures of Bony, Fer, James and Narsingh (and I mean that in terms of numbers, never mind quality). The squad is threadbare.

    - The club have a stated transfer policy of only signing loan players and free agents (i.e. cheap and cheerful)

    On what planet does that constitute a promotion challenge, with or without McBurnie?

    If you are correct that keeping McBurnie would not constitute a promotion push, that would say by losing him, we could finishing near the bottom of the division this season?

    Where do you think we would finish without Mcburnie?
    Imo we aren't going to challenge for promotion with or without him.

    Far more likely not having him about would be the difference between possible relegation and almost certain relegation (on the presumption we'd have to promote CB-R to first choice).

    It's a bit of a funny one with McBurnie - he's very important to us, but £15-20m is way overpriced imo. If I thought we'd invest that money back into the squad I'd say take it, but on balance I think it would be much better and less complicated if he stayed. But then again, £20m quid for a diet Trundle....

    Toughie. I don't envy Birch. 
    rob_h
  • jasper_T said:
    The first offer was £10m. If we'd accepted that the same people complaining about leaving it late would have been fuming about how desperate our owners were to cash in.

    £18m is a lot of money at this level. Too good to turn down from a business perspective, and not devastating from a footballing one either if it means we can keep Borja. Not ideal but that's football in the second tier.

    How much do you actually think they will reinvest in the squad?
  • @rob_h They dont have to sell now or before the window closes. If we are selling because we need the money, then we wont have a fit striker who can play within the new system until at least the end of August.

    So the first 5 matches become a major lottery for us, every if we can find a striker who can pop in 20 goals next season for £2m/£3m. The new guy who have to earn his reputation, or our season is over before it begins.
  • If Oli is sold, then its to keep the money, not spend any, otherwise why sell? If thats not the case then we dont need to sell because we dont need to keep the money.

    Even if a couple of miilion is made available, what will it buy and who will sell to us knowing we have trousered £15m+, for a couple of million. Hardly likely to be ready made replacement and of course, how long will it take to buy and be match ready, end of August if we are lucky, so we go into the Hull match and the first month of the season  with no match fit goalscorer, because Ayew and Borja arent fit to play a whole match, CBR seems to have vanished, so we are left with playing Routs up front.

    Routs will do his best always but lets not pretend its anything other than a disaster, and good luck selling any more season tickets or having a big crowd for the Hull match.
    Sorry, that doesn’t follow.

    if Oli is sold it will be because (a) a buyer has offered more money than he is worth, and it would be folly to turn it down, (b) he has put in a transfer request, (c) we have a financial hole to fill because one or more of AA, BB and JM are not going out on loan as we need them to, or some combination of the above. Not because Birch wants to trouser cash. 

    Those posters saying our MO is to hold on to our assets until too late are correct insofar as that is what happened two years ago. But it is just as fair to say that the club’s MO is to spend more in the Xmas window than we earned in the previous summer, so it is not correct to say that we have a record of trying to make trading profits on our players.

    as to the argument that sellers will see us coming - maybe, in the case of large clubs with deep pockets. Smaller clubs desperate for cash will not be so tough to deal with.
  • Imo we aren't going to challenge for promotion with or without him.

    Far more likely not having him about would be the difference between possible relegation and almost certain relegation (on the presumption we'd have to promote CB-R to first choice).

    It's a bit of a funny one with McBurnie - he's very important to us, but £15-20m is way overpriced imo. If I thought we'd invest that money back into the squad I'd say take it, but on balance I think it would be much better and less complicated if he stayed. But then again, £20m quid for a diet Trundle....

    Toughie. I don't envy Birch. 

    I also think we could be in danger of relegation without McBurnie, the whole squad are going to be devastated not just the fans. This could ruin our momentum.

    I was starting to think that things were looking up, we were building a tidy team that may have done well, it will be very deflating if he goes.
  • @rob_h They dont have to sell now or before the window closes. If we are selling because we need the money, then we wont have a fit striker who can play within the new system until at least the end of August.

    So the first 5 matches become a major lottery for us, every if we can find a striker who can pop in 20 goals next season for £2m/£3m. The new guy who have to earn his reputation, or our season is over before it begins.
    Exactly, he would do well again here if he stayed, and would probably even improve with another season and with the training from Cooper.

    I don't think it's best for McBurnie either, Sheffield have  a high chance of coming back down, and he could lose some of the great confidence he has been building up to date.
  • Telegraph and Argus, ( Yorkshire paper) have just printed Sheffield United have increased the offer to 20M including add on. meaning Swans get 17M Bradford 3M eventually.
    We have to keep him, Sheffield just don't have it up front, borrowing to buy players and wages, before the TV money comes in.
    Selling McBurnie to subsidise others wages is madness, give Ayew away for nothing and take the hit, as he is costing us 4M a year, or loan/sell him to China if they will have him.
    If we don't intend playing Carroll and Montero give them frees as well.
    My weeks optimism is slowly dwindling as I now feel we will sell 
    Success requires some investment, keeping this squad would show they are prepared to at least until Jan 2020 when we would know, promotion could be on the cards.

  • @cadleigh so your contention is either Oli has put in a transfer request (relevant if true, but no indication it is) or £17m/£18m is more than Oli is worth. You might believe so but I dont. I notice Maupay hasnt left Brentford and they have put a £23m price tag on him.

    However Brentford are known to be good at knowing the value of their players.

    Your third point is agreeing with me. If we are selling to fill a financial hole, then money cannot and will not be made available to replace, because we need the money to fill the financial hole.

    So that leaves us with no fit goalscorer, for how long, Ayew isnt fit, Borja has only managed 30 mins and CBR has disappeared thought to be injured.

    Routs will do his best as always, but no way to run a football club.
  • rob_h said:
    jasper_T said:
    The first offer was £10m. If we'd accepted that the same people complaining about leaving it late would have been fuming about how desperate our owners were to cash in.

    £18m is a lot of money at this level. Too good to turn down from a business perspective, and not devastating from a footballing one either if it means we can keep Borja. Not ideal but that's football in the second tier.

    How much do you actually think they will reinvest in the squad?
    Most of it will go on the current squad's wages. If you just mean transfer fees I don't think we'll spend much, if anything.  Loans and frees for now, that's what our limited scouting department will have been looking at all summer.

    But money in the bank means less pressure to sell others in the future. Next summer the parachute payment drops from ~£40m to less than £20m. That money has to be found or players will need to go and the moaning about "asset stripping" will start up again.

    Most clubs in this division have to run a big net profit on transfers to even think about breaking even. That's the reality, even at well-run clubs with good control over their wages like Brentford. We've got Andre Ayew about to pocket £4.5m this year. Brentford's entire wage budget is £15m and they make a hefty operations loss with it (their annual turnover is around £13m before player trading).
  • @cadleigh so your contention is either Oli has put in a transfer request (relevant if true, but no indication it is) or £17m/£18m is more than Oli is worth. You might believe so but I dont. I notice Maupay hasnt left Brentford and they have put a £23m price tag on him.

    However Brentford are known to be good at knowing the value of their players.

    Your third point is agreeing with me. If we are selling to fill a financial hole, then money cannot and will not be made available to replace, because we need the money to fill the financial hole.

    So that leaves us with no fit goalscorer, for how long, Ayew isnt fit, Borja has only managed 30 mins and CBR has disappeared thought to be injured.

    Routs will do his best as always, but no way to run a football club.
    Let me phrase the same sentiment another way.

    I do not believe Birch will sell McBurnie unless one of the following conditions are in place:
    - they bid more than he is worth
    - he asks to go
    - we are financially desperate and would therefore have to raise twice as much income from player sales in the winter transfer window, which would place a gun against our heads no manager needs

    If we raise £13m from selling McBurnie and use it to fill a £7m hole, there would still be £6m left for transfers and we would have Andre Ayew and Borja Baston as our two strikers. 

    To be clear once again, I would prefer we loan out AA and JM and keep Oli, but if he goes I have faith that Birch will have the best interests of the club at heart. 
  • PS I have no reason to think Oli wants to go (evidence suggests the opposite) or that a stupid bid has been received that we can’t turn down
  • There’s no debate to be had whether or not we keep Ollie. If Sheff Utd come back with 20 million whether it’s add ons or not, the Yanks won’t refuse it. Simple as that he’ll be gone
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