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Match Discussion: Swans v Preston North End - Championship 2019/20

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  • bobby1983 said:
    If i was him it would drive me on to prove all the dicks giving him abuse wrong, he had a poor game he needs to forget about it and move on.
    We all know he's a much better player than he showed yesterday, he's young and still learning the game.

    QPR Wednesday he may be on for MOTM.
  • jasper_T said:
    Joe was a victim of their tactical approach. They pressed high, made sure Grimes and vdH couldn't get on the ball, and left Joe to play out with only Bidwell and Fulton to hit without going long. 

    Made mistakes but was far more involved than vdH. "Fans" hate visible errors and Joe had more of the ball than anyone for us in the first half.
    He had a poor game victim of there tactical approach or not he still had a bad game. 
  • edited August 18
    Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Said it before, if we can only get 15k along when we are playing good football and the club are doing all the right things on the face of it, we must admit that we are not as much of a footballing city as we like to believe. If the missing 5k are boycotting on principle I have to ask
    - why were we still getting 20k in the two seasons we were in the EPL under the present owners?
    - how come the boycott is hitting us now when the owners/board are seemingly playing a blinder, but not when the sale was fresh/Jenkins was still chairman/we were making bad recruitment decisions?

    Sad answer is most of those 5k were plastics. We have home support more in line with a League One club TBH, thank heavens the club have higher ambitions than our fan base warrants
    barry
  • First half was terrible, we looked disjointed and gave the ball away too often, Dyer, Grimes and Fulton couldn't make a pass for some reason.
    Enter Ayew and we looked somewhat better, then Byers came on and we looked far better, Celina had more possession, Grimes was winning and distributing and Ayew work rate off and on the ball was brilliant.
    Preston are not a bad side but looking at Reading who are struggling they also look a very good side, its a very competitive league but believe if we keep Borja who seems to be on fire and Ayew, we will be in the mix come Xmas.
    In my opinion the best team we can put out for the next game is
    Woodman, Bidwell, VDH, Roden, Roberts, Fulton, Grimes, Byers, Celina, Ayew Borja, Subs Mulder, Nuaghton, Kalolu, Willmot, Routlege, John, Surridge.  Hopefully no one comes calling for Ayew and Borja
  • Cadleigh said:
    Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Said it before, if we can only get 15k along when we are playing good football and the club are doing all the right things on the face of it, we must admit that we are not as much of a footballing city as we like to believe. If the missing 5k are boycotting on principle I have to ask
    - why were we still getting 20k in the two seasons we were in the EPL under the present owners?
    - how come the boycott is hitting us now when the owners/board are seemingly playing a blinder, but not when the sale was fresh/Jenkins was still chairman/we were making bad recruitment decisions?

    Sad answer is most of those 5k were plastics. We have home support more in line with a League One club TBH, thank heavens the club have higher ambitions than our fan base warrants
    People don't need season tickets when their beloved United and Liverpool don't play here.
    Cadleighbarry
  • SeaJack said:
    To me that game was a bit of a reality check despite the win. No more games like that please or it will completely burst the bubble of a dream return to the Premier League. I hope Kalulu doesn’t go the way of Asoro because the commentary highlighted his shortcomings in this particular game anyway.
    Kalulu and Baston where making some really good runs in the first half but no through balls at any time as the rest of the team were pissing about to much and Celina needs to release the ball sooner and stop trying to be a one man show and that's when he bothered to turn up first half. Was it just me or was Kalulu doing a lot of stretching throughout the game like he was cramping up or something.
  • Which group are you in Cadleigh . One of the 15000 yesterday or the plastics  :D . Myself I couldn’t make it as it was my weekend in work unfortunately....
  • Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Sorry @garythenotrashcougar but imo your wrong

    Why should the owners foot the bill?

    Are they not running a business and should the business not be funded via the income it generates?

    Cadleigh is right that the drop in matchday revenue would be handy to keep the academy running.

    But hey Gary you keep up your boycott unless you get a freebie that is!! As that is a surefire way for the academy to propsper
  • Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Sorry @garythenotrashcougar but imo your wrong

    Why should the owners foot the bill?

    Are they not running a business and should the business not be funded via the income it generates?

    Cadleigh is right that the drop in matchday revenue would be handy to keep the academy running.

    But hey Gary you keep up your boycott unless you get a freebie that is!! As that is a surefire way for the academy to propsper
    If the owners are supposed to foot the bill will the trust match funding at their 21%?
  • enaitch said:
    Which group are you in Cadleigh . One of the 15000 yesterday or the plastics  :D . Myself I couldn’t make it as it was my weekend in work unfortunately....
    I live in the South East of England and don’t get to as many home games as I would like due to the cost and length of time it takes to travel to Swansea and back. I have debated whether to get season tickets for my family many times but I couldn’t justify leaving four empty seats more weeks than not when others might want them. If things carry on as they are I might well revisit that decision.

    I will be there at QPR, at Bristol City (bubble match permitting) and at Charlton. From memory during the season we nearly went out of the football league (2002-3) I was at Southend, Orient and Oxford. Pretty sure I am not a glory-hunter...
    enaitch
  • bobby1983 said:
    jasper_T said:
    Joe was a victim of their tactical approach. They pressed high, made sure Grimes and vdH couldn't get on the ball, and left Joe to play out with only Bidwell and Fulton to hit without going long. 

    Made mistakes but was far more involved than vdH. "Fans" hate visible errors and Joe had more of the ball than anyone for us in the first half.
    He had a poor game victim of there tactical approach or not he still had a bad game. 
    he had no worse a game that Roberts, who has a shocker first half. But neither deserve personal abuse which seems to have happened on twitter. 

    The dickheads who have, are not fans.
  • For the most part for me we are weak on that left side. Rodon, Bidwell & Kululu. Not Rodon's fault although he did make a blooper or two yesterday. The problem is Bidwell & Aldo. Bidwell is not comfortable with the playing out from the back style like Roberts & Naughton are.

    When Roberts gets the ball he tries to find Fulton square of him. Bidwell hardly does that at all ie find Grimes. He is not comfortable seeking Grimes and using his right foot to pass it. Instead he almost always passes it straight back to Rodon or if he can up to Aldo who doesnt have the close control needed and loses the ball.

    A number of times yesterday with Rodon starting to be pressed he passed to Bidwell only for Bidwell to hit it straight back at him with a nearby attacker now going full on press on Joe forcing Joe to go long with a ball for safety reasons.

    I think the weakness is the Bidwell/Aldo combo. Worked a lot better 2nd half because Celina has far better close control of a ball and the technique and vision to do something with it when under pressure.

    For me Aldo needs to spend a month or so training with the first team before he gets another start form the off
    jasper_TJackareme
  • Martyn said:
    For the most part for me we are weak on that left side. Rodon, Bidwell & Kululu. Not Rodon's fault although he did make a blooper or two yesterday. The problem is Bidwell & Aldo. Bidwell is not comfortable with the playing out from the back style like Roberts & Naughton are.

    When Roberts gets the ball he tries to find Fulton square of him. Bidwell hardly does that at all ie find Grimes. He is not comfortable seeking Grimes and using his right foot to pass it. Instead he almost always passes it straight back to Rodon or if he can up to Aldo who doesnt have the close control needed and loses the ball.

    A number of times yesterday with Rodon starting to be pressed he passed to Bidwell only for Bidwell to hit it straight back at him with a nearby attacker now going full on press on Joe forcing Joe to go long with a ball for safety reasons.

    I think the weakness is the Bidwell/Aldo combo. Worked a lot better 2nd half because Celina has far better close control of a ball and the technique and vision to do something with it when under pressure.

    For me Aldo needs to spend a month or so training with the first team before he gets another start form the off
    Definitely think Bidwell is a problem, he's not technically gifted on the ball reminds me of Alan Tate. Not the most gifted with a mistake in him, will always give you 100% tho
  • Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Sorry @garythenotrashcougar but imo your wrong

    Why should the owners foot the bill?

    Are they not running a business and should the business not be funded via the income it generates?

    Cadleigh is right that the drop in matchday revenue would be handy to keep the academy running.

    But hey Gary you keep up your boycott unless you get a freebie that is!! As that is a surefire way for the academy to propsper
    If you can answer why shouldn't they, maybe I might answer why they should. 

    In the meantime I'll gladly enjoy the minimum 10 games I'll see this season for free, safe in the knowledge that I feel personally better for depriving them of a penny of my own cash. And I tell you something else, I don't feel a shred of guilt in doing it. I had a season ticket for 13 years, I've paid my dues. If the owners choose to f*ck the Academy over then that'll be on their conscience, and theirs alone. They are worth billions. You can carry on looking for reasons to defend them if you like, but I'll never join you. 
  • Cadleigh said:
    Cadleigh said:
    It was disappointing that we only had 15k there again yesterday. That £2m lost income (I’d it keeps up over the season) would be handy in keeping the academy running. 
    Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style.

    There are ways and means around this without putting it all on the supporters to bear the strain.
    Said it before, if we can only get 15k along when we are playing good football and the club are doing all the right things on the face of it, we must admit that we are not as much of a footballing city as we like to believe. If the missing 5k are boycotting on principle I have to ask
    - why were we still getting 20k in the two seasons we were in the EPL under the present owners?
    - how come the boycott is hitting us now when the owners/board are seemingly playing a blinder, but not when the sale was fresh/Jenkins was still chairman/we were making bad recruitment decisions?

    Sad answer is most of those 5k were plastics. We have home support more in line with a League One club TBH, thank heavens the club have higher ambitions than our fan base warrants
    This is a completely different conversation to the original point, but nevertheless one I'm happy to discuss.

    Over the years I've been very vocal on here against stadium expansion when it was talked about in the PL and I have long since proved to be right. I absolutely agree with you that many of our supporters in the PL were fairweathers, and they haven't gone because they're protesting (like me) they've gone because they aren't seeing Liverpool or Man Utd anymore. I said on here before, I know of at least half a dozen people who are brazenly happy to admit that. There are also many amongst our fanbase who are bigger rugby fans when push comes to shove, but it's another excuse for them to get of the house.

    I think it's a bit strong to say we've got a core fanbase more befitting a League One club, I think 15k is a good solid Championship average gate but we were always going to drop back to the 15,16k levels we were seeing last time we were at this level. 

    I reckon the loss of the 5k in terms of a split between plastics/'rugby at heart' and protestors/boycotters would be 80 : 20. Perhaps even a bigger gap. 
  • you can also add on a couple of thousand away supporters that dont come, which the Premier League almost guaranteed. That takes the gate closer to 17-18k.
    rob_hgarythenotrashcougar
  • Yes Bidwell does remind me a little bit of Tate in that regard
  • @Mark_Jack_London away supporters, yes most who complain that we got only 15k yesterday are forgetting that 2 to 3k of away fans were coming to the Liberty in the PL
  •  we were always going to drop back to the 15,16k levels we were seeing last time we were at this level. 

     
    I disagree - clubs like Norwich have demonstrated you can step up a level in attendance and maintain it. If we had expanded when we were in the Premier League we could have made it easy and cheap for a more diverse range of supporters to start going to games. Instead we allowed the plastics (who only ever showed up for ‘big’ games anyway) to hog seats. 

    Be interesting to see if Brighton and Bournemouth managed to achieve the same kind of uplift Norwich did.

    it’s essential to making a bid for a sustained run in the Premier League, anyone who thinks we can do it using TV money alone is deluded.
  • Actually our big weakness yesterday was down our right. Connor seems out of sorts, as they kept the pressure coming down his wing. Their goal and most of their serious chances came from the build up on their left.

    The challenge for the penalty by Connor was not typical of him and he was lucky with the outcome.

    Ayew works hard but doesnt have the defensive awareness of Nathan which didnt help Connor.
  • Martyn said:
    Yes Bidwell does remind me a little bit of Tate in that regard
    We used to dream of a team of Alan Tate's !!!! - if he becomes 10% of the servant to the club Tatey was I will be very happy. Also there was nothing the matter with his technical ability when he picked out Borja for the winner.
    I thought the problem down that side yesterday was Kalulu who was not in the game at all and massively restricted any passing options.

  • Martyn said:
    For the most part for me we are weak on that left side. Rodon, Bidwell & Kululu. Not Rodon's fault although he did make a blooper or two yesterday. The problem is Bidwell & Aldo. Bidwell is not comfortable with the playing out from the back style like Roberts & Naughton are.

    When Roberts gets the ball he tries to find Fulton square of him. Bidwell hardly does that at all ie find Grimes. He is not comfortable seeking Grimes and using his right foot to pass it. Instead he almost always passes it straight back to Rodon or if he can up to Aldo who doesnt have the close control needed and loses the ball.

    A number of times yesterday with Rodon starting to be pressed he passed to Bidwell only for Bidwell to hit it straight back at him with a nearby attacker now going full on press on Joe forcing Joe to go long with a ball for safety reasons.

    I think the weakness is the Bidwell/Aldo combo. Worked a lot better 2nd half because Celina has far better close control of a ball and the technique and vision to do something with it when under pressure.

    For me Aldo needs to spend a month or so training with the first team before he gets another start form the off
    Bidwell is painfully one footed. Not sure he is suited for our style, when playing out from the back. 
  • bobby1983 said:
    Joe Rodon was the biggest problem defensively yesterday probably the worst game he's had for us
    A young player, learning the game, is always going to make mistakes. But he was not the only one. Nearly every player made mistakes in the first half. But seems some have singled Joe out so much, and given him abuse on twitter, he has deleted his account.
    you can see how typical this is of fans. There's a few well known knobs on here who go in for the same kind of slander. Sadly they get away with it. Well done Lee Trundle
  • Extended highlights, and yes, Jackareme, Bidwell's was a great overlap and cross for Borja's 2nd https://www.swanseacity.com/news/extended-highlights-swansea-city-v-preston-north-end
  • 2 home games, fans still critical, plenty of time to blend in with their fellow players. Just imagine if we had lost yesterday!
  • Actually our big weakness yesterday was down our right. Connor seems out of sorts, as they kept the pressure coming down his wing. Their goal and most of their serious chances came from the build up on their left.

    The challenge for the penalty by Connor was not typical of him and he was lucky with the outcome.

    Ayew works hard but doesnt have the defensive awareness of Nathan which didnt help Connor.
    There was some analysis done by someone earlier in the week, which highlighted that Preston mainly attack down the left hand side. So that should have been known, and accounted for.
    rob_h
  • Bidwell seems to be the escaped goat for this season.

    Dunno why. Perhaps because he doesn't look like a footballer and a bit ungainly.

    Thought he was one of the few players to come out of the first half with any credit. Made several good blocks and was praised by the comms as well but was still getting pelters from the intelligentsia.

    As for the second half, he did a couple of great overlapping runs with excellent crosses into the box, one of which resulted in the winning goal, did a fantastic last ditch tackle late on when a player was clean thru and then a great sliding block to stop a goal-bound shot in the very last minute.

    But apparently he had a bad game.


    rob_hjasper_T
  • JRoden is as Trunds said a class player ! I also recognise his talent !
    Against Preston he looked awkward and lacking authority in that 1st half which surprised me but hey I am sure Joe knew he was having a “mare” and played much better 2nd half - ‘anybody’ whoever you are can have a bad day at the office !
  • Maybe our owners who have billions between them could foot the bill. Perhaps Oaktree could sponsor the training ground, Man City style. 

    Sorry @garythenotrashcougar but imo your wrong

    Why should the owners foot the bill?

    Are they not running a business and should the business not be funded via the income it generates?


    A business will only be successful and generate more income if its owners are willing to invest in it.  Just like a factory.  If you won't pay for regular maintenance or capital expenditure to update the technology, you can't compete and will be just a run-of-the-mill enterprise.    It's easy to be an owner in the cash cow that is the Premier League.  Anyone could run that.  It takes more commitment and openness to risk when you aren't.
  • With regard to Bidwell I do see him as a great signing - because he is mr consistency and has made us solid defensively in an area of real weakness.
    I have mentioned before, though, that there might be an argument for starting with Declan in home games in particular. Food for thought!
    barryjasper_T
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