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Swans Academy

I heard yesterday off a very good source that our academy is dropping it's Cat 1 status with immediate effect and that the club is looking for  buyers for the Landore site and only 3 age groups left will be moving to Fairwood, all the younger age groups will go, just when we thought we was over the worse????

Comments

  • The time for "immediate effect" was before the season started, surely. 

    What three age groups? Cat Three still requires groups down to u9s. Cat Four starts at u18s and barely qualifies as an academy (might as well abandon the whole concept in that case).
  • edited September 10
    As recently said by the Exeter Chairman in the excellent piece on them (which Colin posted about in the General Forum), 

    "It takes two minutes to close an academy but it will take 10 years to get it into a space where it's functioning again to support the club."
     


    Also to drop from Cat 1 would be a huge mistake, as the protections for keeping players is greater. Exeter are not Cat 1 and have been shafted by the Arbitration system. Best example is Ampadu going for £850k when every man and his dog knew he was worth at least 10 fold, if not more than what Chelsea paid for him.


    Llanjack
  • Exeter can't afford £3-4m a year for those protections. They would need to produce and sell an Ampadu every few years or go out of business.

    We produced Connor and Joe before becoming Cat One. They weren't poached before we offered them professional contracts.
    Llanjack
  • Both Cat 2 & 3 clubs are continually shafted by Cat 1 clubs when it comes to signing players but there was nothing the EFL could do about it when it came to a vote. Either accept it or lose a huge percentage of your funding.

    From April 2019, 
    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/potter-pleased-academys-status

    I would think that if the cutbacks in Melinjack's post has any substance, not only would we have read a statement from Trevor Birch but also I doubt very much we could afford to keep Ayew and Borja. 

    Mark_Jack_London
  • Both Cat 2 & 3 clubs are continually shafted by Cat 1 clubs when it comes to signing players but there was nothing the EFL could do about it when it came to a vote. Either accept it or lose a huge percentage of your funding.

    From April 2019, 
    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/potter-pleased-academys-status

    I would think that if the cutbacks in Melinjack's post has any substance, not only would we have read a statement from Trevor Birch but also I doubt very much we could afford to keep Ayew and Borja. 

    We tried to get rid of Ayew, but got no worthwhile offers. Something major may well have to go to cover that cost.

    Downgrade is inevitable with the parachute payments falling off, unless we get promoted.

    Llanjackenaitch
  • edited September 10
    Despite the salary costs of AA and BB, which will after all end in the foreseeable future, to downgrade the Academy after all the convincing talk around  the long term  future of the Club being tied to the Academy seems daft.
    Surely this is just rumour .
    Llanjack
  • This rumour was going around at the start of last season where the club were looking for some sports club etc to buy Landore to cut costs etc  .Next season I would presume that all the higher earners will be gone and some spare cash will be ploughed into the team and academy 
  • enaitch said:
    This rumour was going around at the start of last season where the club were looking for some sports club etc to buy Landore to cut costs etc  .Next season I would presume that all the higher earners will be gone and some spare cash will be ploughed into the team and academy 
    Next season we'll still have Ayew on his £80k/week basic and the parachute payment will have dropped another £20m. We won't have any spare cash unless we sell a few star players.
    Llanjack
  • jasper_T said:
    enaitch said:
    This rumour was going around at the start of last season where the club were looking for some sports club etc to buy Landore to cut costs etc  .Next season I would presume that all the higher earners will be gone and some spare cash will be ploughed into the team and academy 
    Next season we'll still have Ayew on his £80k/week basic and the parachute payment will have dropped another £20m. We won't have any spare cash unless we sell a few star players.
    the underlying question is what will the overall wage bill have reduced to next May.
  • We can't lose our cat1 academy status. Especially now that it's beginning to bear fruit regularly
    Llanjack
  • Guesses but revenue went from 120m, to 60m (year 1), 40m (year 2) and 20m (year 3), after that we are back to 10m PA, academy costs near 5m PA, can see it going beyond parachute payments
  • There's no reason to think we won't continue to bring through young players while we are in this division regardless of academy category status. We've only had full Cat One status for 3 years (started playing Cat One fixtures the season before while facilities were being completed) and most of the players that have emerged with us recently were either professionals here before then (Rodon, Connor) or spent most of their development years are lower-grade academies elsewhere (Grimes, Oli). DJ a mix of the two, having been signed while we were Cat Two from Cat Three Hull. Connor was player of the year at Yeovil before we were a proper Cat One outfit. Ben Davies came through the garden shed/hole in the fence centre of excellence system.

    The reason our academy is only bearing fruit now after a long, long drought is - as Graham Potter put it - the glass ceiling of the Premier League has been removed, and players now have a realistic and regular opportunity to break into the first team picture here. The standard is lower, stakes are lower, budgets are lower so squads are smaller etc. Clubs up and down the EFL bring through teenagers year on year, by necessity.

    Feel free to riot if we drop below Cat Three and shut down the lower age groups, though. I'll join you. We've got great catchment area with little competition, and we've only just started to take proper advantage of it. 
    Llanjack
  • Jasper_T,
    I don't agree with you regarding your remark re-garden shed/hole in the fence centre of excellence system, especially when you consider the lack of finance the department had to work with from the Football League, and when you consider the number of kids poached by other clubs in the young age group teams of the centre of excellence, in most cases without compensation.
    There wasn't much between Ben Davies and Joe Walsh when they were breaking through as youngsters. The first season in the PL when they played in the PL reserve league they alternated between c/back and l/back while Gwion Edwards has had a good career in the EFL since then as has Liam Shephard while Josh Sheehan was  a year behind as was Alex Bray. 
    What Cat. 1 status has shown in just 3 years is that the quality of young footballer in the academy has dramatically improved over the years and more and more youngsters are finding careers in the professional game should they find it difficult breaking into the Swans first team.
    As you posted, the demands of the PL restrict youngsters from being given game time but I would like to think that if we hadn't had the likes of Clement and Cavalhal as managers, Dan especially, or even Joe would have been given game time in the PL.
    Llanjack
  • Why put the recent improvement down to Cat One alone when the players you can use as evidence spent the vast majority of their development years outside a category one setup? As you say we were bringing through EFL-quality players when we spent next to nothing on the development teams. 

    Downgrading from Cat One is not the end of the world. We can't afford all the knobs and whistles any more (or won't be able to soon), and certainly can't afford to take advantage of most of the perks (Checkatrade fixtures and income already gone due to first team league position), but a lower academy status doesn't shut the door entirely. Jack Clarke and Lloyd Kelly weren't Cat One babies, but became big money Championship players after emerging last season. Clubs with good structures and pathways established can do the job at Cat Two/Three. 
    Llanjack
  • jasper_T said:
    enaitch said:
    This rumour was going around at the start of last season where the club were looking for some sports club etc to buy Landore to cut costs etc  .Next season I would presume that all the higher earners will be gone and some spare cash will be ploughed into the team and academy 
    Next season we'll still have Ayew on his £80k/week basic and the parachute payment will have dropped another £20m. We won't have any spare cash unless we sell a few star players.
    or...we will get promotion and be richer to the tune of £120m
    Llanjack
  • the problem is not that we wont produce if we drop from Cat A, but the fact the best can be picked off by those who have Cat A status for a pittance.


  • the problem is not that we wont produce if we drop from Cat A, but the fact the best can be picked off by those who have Cat A status for a pittance.


    Connor didn't, Joe didn't, DJ didn't (a lowly Cat Two academy stole him). It's a lot of money for insurance against the odd player jumping ship. Literally millions a year to keep Emyr Huws in the building. Trust your methods and create a successful environment and the lads who want to be there will be. 

    Cardiff fans make a lot of noise about how City stole Matondo and how much money it cost them but in reality he was never going to make a £12m player with them. Schalke paid for the badge. Cardiff were happy to pack him off in order to keep Sion Spence (who City were also looking at) and there were off-field issues with Rabbi. More likely he runs down his first professional contract with them and goes elsewhere for a small tribunal fee and maybe a 5% solidarity payment in the future. They'd be better served giving the ones they've got opportunities than keeping a couple more starlets in the pre-professional phase for a multi-million premium.
    Llanjack
  • jasper_T said:
    the problem is not that we wont produce if we drop from Cat A, but the fact the best can be picked off by those who have Cat A status for a pittance.


    Connor didn't, Joe didn't, DJ didn't (a lowly Cat Two academy stole him). It's a lot of money for insurance against the odd player jumping ship. Literally millions a year to keep Emyr Huws in the building. Trust your methods and create a successful environment and the lads who want to be there will be. 

    Cardiff fans make a lot of noise about how City stole Matondo and how much money it cost them but in reality he was never going to make a £12m player with them. Schalke paid for the badge. Cardiff were happy to pack him off in order to keep Sion Spence (who City were also looking at) and there were off-field issues with Rabbi. More likely he runs down his first professional contract with them and goes elsewhere for a small tribunal fee and maybe a 5% solidarity payment in the future. They'd be better served giving the ones they've got opportunities than keeping a couple more starlets in the pre-professional phase for a multi-million premium.
    those rules werent in place for much of the time we are talking about.

    And nobody in the top echelons deemed them good enough to pinch either! are you honestly telling us you would have expected DJ have been snapped up by Man Utd this time last year - let alone when he came to us from Hull?

    Since it has become 'law'  we have seen the likes Man City sniffing around the likes of Joe. I dare say they will have been looking, but obviously not convinced - because as far as we know, nobody has made an offer for any of them to date!
  • jasper_T said:
    the problem is not that we wont produce if we drop from Cat A, but the fact the best can be picked off by those who have Cat A status for a pittance.


    Connor didn't, Joe didn't, DJ didn't (a lowly Cat Two academy stole him). It's a lot of money for insurance against the odd player jumping ship. Literally millions a year to keep Emyr Huws in the building. Trust your methods and create a successful environment and the lads who want to be there will be. 

    Cardiff fans make a lot of noise about how City stole Matondo and how much money it cost them but in reality he was never going to make a £12m player with them. Schalke paid for the badge. Cardiff were happy to pack him off in order to keep Sion Spence (who City were also looking at) and there were off-field issues with Rabbi. More likely he runs down his first professional contract with them and goes elsewhere for a small tribunal fee and maybe a 5% solidarity payment in the future. They'd be better served giving the ones they've got opportunities than keeping a couple more starlets in the pre-professional phase for a multi-million premium.
    those rules werent in place for much of the time we are talking about.

    And nobody in the top echelons deemed them good enough to pinch either! are you honestly telling us you would have expected DJ have been snapped up by Man Utd this time last year - let alone when he came to us from Hull?

    Since it has become 'law'  we have seen the likes Man City sniffing around the likes of Joe. I dare say they will have been looking, but obviously not convinced - because as far as we know, nobody has made an offer for any of them to date!
    What players are you worried about being stolen, then? You're the one suggesting that without Cat One protection we'll be robbed of all our potential talents.
    Llanjack
  • There are other options. Norwich used a supporters Bond to raise funds for their academy infrastructure. It doesn’t have to be a bald choice between spending a quarter of our entire turnover on keeping Cat 1 status or keeping the money and downgrading to Cat 3. I am confident Birch is smart enough to think outside the box on this one
    Jeff_Cowbridge
  • Some information on the Bond

    https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2018/march/canaries-bond-launch/

    The bond will pay 5% gross interest annually, with an additional 3% gross in club credit, and investors will be paid a one-off 25% bonus if the Club is promoted during the lifetime of the bond. The minimum subscription is £500 with no upper limit; investments must be paid in increments of £500. The Canaries Bond is an unsecured investment and prospective investors will be advised at every stage of the process of the potential risks to their capital.
    CadleighJeff_Cowbridge
  • I’d invest at those rates to be fair
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