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Why I hate watching Wales

The referee.

before posting something like this I have to check myself for bias. I pass. I actually care more watching Swans games but I inevitably get more infuriated by the ref watching Wales.

I hate the way British refs make up a new rule and won't give a booking in the first five minutes. European refs often seem to follow a format of no cards for about 50 minutes and then once it's out might as well use it and spray it about equally. Regardless of what's going on.

The left back and the bald CH committed a raft of fouls each. No cards. Then about 50 mins in Hungary get two. To me, a deliberate foul is either designed to stop or hurt. Both their yellows were nasty ones designed to hurt - the sort that occasionally attract a red. Then Mepham and Dan pick up two of the softest yellows I've seen in 40 odd years watching football. 2-2 on yellows against a team who commit foul after foul after foul including some nasty ones. Just seems to keep happening in internationals.

Comments

  • edited November 19
    Just realised how inappropriately I chose the heading for that when the football tonight has left me as happy as a dog with two c**ks. :)


  • Colin, 

    I agree, it is very odd how they ref these international games.

    I do find the Swans games more frustrating though. You can guarantee that the opposition will be given a free pass on all the minor misdemeanors like shirt pulling, not retreating ten yards, etc but the minute one of our players does it he's pulled up immediately.

    One of my biggest bugbears down the years was watching the likes of Anderson, Dyer, Montero, James etc getting absolutely kicked to pieces by right or left backs, and at best the ref finally books the perpetrator with about 10 minutes left, but more often than not nothing done at all. 
  • Colin: Totally agree with you,
    I felt obliged to post this, on the match thread, after a poster said how well he thought the ref had officiated ~~
    • J4cka:
      Jackareme
      . Fantastic ref?  Your ‘avin an effin larff?
      I lost count of the fouls by their centre half, and others, on Moore.

       It was an absolute joke!  Plus other “challenges” by them, going unpunished. 

      And just like at the Liberty, the opposition kick us to death, only for the ref to have “a quiet word” with each player that has kicked us. 

      Then eventually, when he brings out the long awaited yellow card, he starts to feel obliged to give us one, just  to even it out. 

      Feck me, I’ve seen it so many times, it’s hardly coincidental. 

      Matter of fact, I’ll have a bet with you, it’ll happen again on Saturday, against Millwall. 
  • It is always interesting how a referee is reviewed by folks who have a "dog in the fight". I have lost count of the number of times this guestbook has crucified a referee on this Site - exactly as above, only to go on the opposition guestbook to find that the fans of the team we just played are equally critical and calling him biased (or far worse).
    It is largely why refereeing is a thankless job when passions run high. 

    I had an expectation that a big call would be made against Wales causing us to lose a player or concede a penalty/offside goal etc. He allowed the game to flow and let Wales make tackles and declined a few appeals from the Hungarians for decisions in and around our box - he was perfectly fine for me and exceeded my (rather limited) expectations.
  • The aforementioned Hungarian fouls were atrocious, particularly as at one point I thought the ref had left his cards at home

    What really boils my piss tho is that whenever Moore challenged in the air, won the ball but his opposition went sprawling over, he was conceding a foul?!

    He's a big lad, he will largely be able to win aerial duels without the need to foul the opposition, & he did against Hungary all night long!
  • I echo your sentiments Jackarme. I mentioned on the Wales v Hungary thread that I was concerned about the fact that the ref was from Romania, a neighbour of Hungary. I was pleasantly surprised by his performance on Tuesday. But forgetting the match last Tuesday, I've just found a thread that I started a few years ago on this guestbook (2014?), about the pitfalls of becoming a referee. That was at a time when I was trying to complete a visit to all 92 league grounds. In many of the matches I was there to watch the Swans, but just as many I was there as a neutral. It's amazing how differently we view a referee as a neutral. I shall cut and paste my 2014 thread, and don my tin hat for the wrath of the referee lynch mob:

    When I'm not watching the Swans I'm attempting to do the 92 clubs/grounds. I've got 4 to go, though I've also done loads (Wrexham/Kidderminster/Chester/Grimsby + quite a few others) that are no longer league clubs. So be it. Anyway, I digress. I've done most of these grounds as a neutral and I can honestly say that I've rarely seen a bad referee performance. Yes, they've made mistakes, but I cannot recall a ref having an absolute mare of a game. I would go on to say that there are some really good referees in the lower leagues, but due to their age I guess they'll never reach the Holy Grail of refereeing - The Premiership.

    When we watch the Swans we lose our sense of impartiality, and become very partisan. That is natural, hence we heap scorn on the officials when decisions go against us. I'm sure all other fans of other clubs see it the same way. Having said that I do agree that it is noticeable how certain high profile managers/players can manipulate some referees, and that is something that the FA should look at, assisted by TV footage if need be. 

    I dont want to labour this point too much, but I would say to you take a look at local league football, or even junior football, where referees are often subjected to torrents of vile and unacceptable abuse from players, officials, supporters, and parents (in the case of juniors). How can we encourage people to take up the whistle, when they have to tolerate the untolerable. Just think about it. 



    Jackareme
  • Boys bach!  If you thought that ref was good, then fair enough. “ There’s nowt funnier than folk” 
    And as said previously, it’s all about opinions
    I suggest you put on your SKY plus, and watch their baldy centre half on Moore, plus various other Hungarians taking the p*ss, without a sniff of a yellow, from the ref.
     And then watch the 2 arbitrary yellows we incur. 
    As I said before..... “Ur avin an effin larff”


    barry
  • Agreed @J4cka - there is room for a variety of views and assessments. But have a look back through the match threads of our 16 games so far and try and pick out a positive review of a referee (and we have been winning more than losing). In my perspective objectivity goes out of the window when you have a passion for one side and a burning desire to see a particular winning outcome. Lets face it they cut ALL have been biased against us - surely!!!!
    I just feel I recognize the one eyed nature of supporters more than most (at least I try!!). Anyway love the passion for Cymru and the Swans  - roll on Milwall..


  • I totally agree with you Jackareme, on the one eyed issue. Myself included, as probably one of the worst offenders. 
    (Ask my mates who sit either side of me at Liberty stadium  :flushed: )
    But I honestly can’t see how you thought that ref, in the Wales game, was anything but shocking, in his non decisions against Moore in particular, and the 2 subsequent yellows against Wales. 
    But hay ho, see you in Baku in Azerbaijan !:D 
    Jackareme
  • If we could isolate a montage of bad tackles that didn't get cards and the 4 cards he issued, it would be impossible to call it competent refereeing.

    The thing that makes me so angry about it is that I was able to call it 5 minutes in advance. Not cos I'm in any way clever but because it was a pattern I've come to expect.
  • The same montage could probably be pulled from 90% of games @ColinNorthampton - a similar montage could be pulled of decisions where he played on with players diving in the air and bogus penalty shouts that he declined to give.
    Editing film is the same as seeing the game the way you want to.
  • I honestly  thought the Referee  had a reasonable  game  , the biggest decisions was the challenges between Moore and their centre back  , first half I thought Moore came off worse,  second half Moore came off best ,

    The most important  thing with the Ref , he had no impact  on the game  which we feared ,
    Jackareme
  • Opinions are obviously mixed on this thorny subject of refereeing. I was at the game. I go to all Wales games if my job allows. I was in the Canton stand. I didn't have the benefit of action replays and SKY plus. I saw things as they happened, as did the referee. No slow motion replays etc, and no dreaded VAR. From what I saw, in real time, I thought the ref had a fair game. I actually thought that Ramsey was offside for the second goal, but it was allowed, happy days. And I actually agree with the dissenters on the yellow cards for the Welsh players, did the ref feel obliged to even things up? However, if the ref was as bad as some of you perceived him to be,

    1) Why didn't Giggs complain about it?
    2) Why didn't the media focus on it?

    Going back to my original email yesterday, we are, by enlarge, partisan Wales/Swansea supporters. We disagree with ALL decisions that go against us, when OUR team is playing. Same applies to all other fans of their own beloved teams. But if you ever get the opportunity to watch a match, as a neutral, give it a try. You'll be amazed how the referee becomes almost irrelevant. Try it some time. 
    ColinNorthampton
  • Jackarame
    I very much agree with you about the way tribalism leads us to a natural bias and I know I'm as susceptible as anyone. I've had to eat humble pie in the past after being at a game and then seeing highlights later.

    Televised with replays etc., I try not to rant unless I have a really strong case. Last time I ranted on here was the Man City game. Not about the close offside without VAR. but the pen without any possibility of a view was unforgivable.

    i am assuming that the yellows are irrelevant as it was the last qualifier? The specific thing I object to is the fact that we were always getting a couple as soon as they did. I was waiting for it. I have no hard evidence but it is my perception of international refs. I would be stupid not to even consider that my expectations are based on incorrect bias but I did announce our cards just before they were issued and I've done it before. And they were two of the softest yellows you'll ever see. My grievance is that refs ref to a culture that is not the rule book. I feel the same when commentators praise a ref in the first 5 minutes for keeping his powder dry by ignoring a clear need for a card. There is no mention of time in the rules.
    Jackareme
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