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Landore to be sold!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7740077/AHEAD-GAME-Derby-earmark-Wayne-Rooney-future-manager.html

Scroll down to the last article. Not really new information as a proposed sale was on the table last season. I await the I told you so guys.

Comments

  • slightly misleading there Colin.

    It states a sale is being considered and has not been signed off, and Cooper is not an advocate for it's sale, as it will mean the end of Academy 1 status - and that does have big implications.

    Plus, another factor would be who would buy that training ground, and if there are any covenants to change it's purpose. 

    It would be a bloody waste of money to get rid, having spent millions on it.
    Wyn
  • approx 8.5 million in total spent building all of it
  • slightly misleading there Colin.

    It states a sale is being considered and has not been signed off, and Cooper is not an advocate for it's sale, as it will mean the end of Academy 1 status - and that does have big implications.

    Plus, another factor would be who would buy that training ground, and if there are any covenants to change it's purpose. 

    It would be a bloody waste of money to get rid, having spent millions on it.
    Mark,
    there is interest in Landore, as there was last year, but I would think that the only aspect missing from retaining cat 1 status if the academy was moved to Fairwood was the lack of an indoor barn and education facilities. Watch this space I think. 
  • Worst kept secret in the world we're considering selling the Landore site, if it can earn the vultures some extra coin, they'll do it. What the Mail reporting it means, is that it's getting close now - someone at the club will have chosen to directly brief them on it, you can be sure of that. It won't be far away. 

    The two biggest laughs for me were:

    1. Cooper won't sign off. Like he has any sort of say over the matter!

    2. The funds will go back into the team. Pull the other one, it's got bells on!

    I just can't wait for the usual spin to be put on this by the happy-clappy brigade, pass the popcorn. In three years' time, they'll be there when we're home to Macclesfield, still insisting everything is going to be just fine. Ostriches.
    JoH
  • I mentioned that this is my personal line in the sand. IF we cannot invest in category one status (and maybe there is a plan to consolidate at fairwood - please) then I am ready to start manning the barricades my friends.
  • We can't afford to maintain Cat 1 status without continually drawing funds out of the first team via player sales to balance the books. Which we already have to do as Championship income doesn't cover Championship wages at practically any of the clubs. Competition for the prize of the PL has driven up costs all over. Even well-run clubs like Brentford make £15m+ transfer profits and still lose money year on year.

    Our academy sides are already struggling to compete in the top level environment. We don't recruit for them at a rate that matches other Cat 1 setups any more, and the sides are getting younger and more local all the time. How many players go on to become valuable assets for us in the first team depends on how interested the manager is. He's got a large squad to pick from as it is. Cabango's had a few tastes, and there were a few more debuts in the cup. Garrick's injury issues maybe prevented him from becoming a DJ-style breakthrough (although he's never that good and it's a bit much to ask tbf).

    The issue for me isn't dropping from Cat 1. That seems inevitable and probably sensible, it's an elite bracket created to give rich clubs more leverage in poaching promising talents. It's what it drops to that could be the issue. Cat 3 sets some pretty poor standards for the lower age groups re: coaching hours etc. and while they're minimums (and at Cat 1 we and most others overstaffed for the minimums by some distance) that's where we might miss out on players and development. The local talent pool is frankly better than we've made it look over the last decade.
    moorlandsJeff_Cowbridge
  • I agree with Gary's comments that Cooper won't have an influence on the decision and that any resulting funds won't be made available for player purchases.

    In terms of the sale of the Landore site, it's difficult to estimate how much it would raise - £2M? £5M ? Not that much really but the more significant savings would be on operational costs if we drop one or two categories - I remember seeing £5M a year being quoted as the running costs for the academy - so we might save £500k a year (??) by all being on one site and the synergies around that , and maybe another £2M by going down to Cat 2 or Cat3 ?? 

    I'd like to ask @jasper_T who has knowledge of this stuff - how does our pre-Academy set-up (i.e what I would call the "youth team" set up that produced Joe and Ben) compare to the official FA categories ? Does the old set up roughly equate to Cat 3, or lower than that,  or are they just not comparable at all?
  • Of course Cooper won’t have a say, he is just passing through. 

    Rumour previously was that the club was trying to offload the facility to the University - some kind of sporting centre of excellence initiative by the Uni to recruit more students.

    Possibly lease it back to the Swans like Fairwood ? It never made sense having 2 such large facilities. This is another cost cutting exercise, owners trying to claw some money back any which way they can.


  • Jeff,

    One huge downside is that all clubs outside Cat 1 are wide open to have youngsters cherry picked by Cat 1 clubs, and receive pretty poor compensation. EFL clubs were effectively forced to accept the new Cat system when it was introduced or have their funding taken away from them.

    If my memory serves me right, going back to the time when we played at the Vetch Field, whatever compensation was available to pay clubs was far higher than what is in place nowadays.

    Head of Youth Development Malcolm Elias left the Swans in February 2000 to join Southampton and in July 2000 16 year old Swans midfielder Matthew Crowell signed for Southampton with a Football League tribunal in September 200 deciding that Southampton pay Swans £100k. Should he play in the first team at Southampton a further £100k was to be paid every time he plays 10 matches, up to a max total of £500k. There was also a sell on clause of 20% have to be paid if he was transferred from Southampton.

    In November 2000, 15 year old midfielder Richard Jones was transferred to Southampton with an agreed package that exceeded what Southampton were ordered by a tribunal to pay when Crowell left the Swans.

    In 2009 Emyr Hws, who had been with the Swans since the age of 7 joined Manchester City. No details of the compensation package paid.

    The following is taken from the Elite Performance Plan May 2011

    The old youth development system

    Youth development in professional football in England is currently made up of 12,067 players (Source: the Football Administration System administered by Youth Departments in the PL and FL on behalf of the clubs in each League 2011).

    There are:

    40 Academies and 51 Centres of Excellence (Three Centres of Excellence are outside the Football League) 18 Academies and two Centres of Excellence are based in the PL 22 Academies and 46 Centres of Excellence are based in the FL 24% of the players are based in the Premier League and 76% are based in the Football League

    Profile of Registered Players Season 2010/11

    Academies and Centres of Excellence

    Total Registered Players aged 16-18

    What we have now.

    Category 1 Academy - the optimum development environment for players in the youth system. Category 1 Academies will typically produce Premier League players and have the capacity to provide the optimum access to coaching in an elite environment in which the highest quality of coaching and development is provided. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 2 Academy - the second tier of Academy which will typically produce professional players in the Football League and will produce Premier League players from time to time. Players will be entitled to a core programme which delivers a Coaching Programme moving from Part Time to Hybrid during the Youth Development phase of the Performance Pathway. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 3 Academy - an entry level development environment for professional clubs that wish to maintain a Performance Pathway for players from U9. Category 3 Academies will typically produce professional players in the Football League. Players will be entitled to a Part Time Training Model through the Academy until the Professional Development Phase. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 4 Academy - a late development model where formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Professional Development Phase U17 to U21. The Category 4 Academy will provide an intensive Full Time Training Model for players in this phase. It is anticipated that Category 4 Academies will produce late developing players for the Football League and from time to time, the Premier League


  • EagleEye said:
    Of course Cooper won’t have a say, he is just passing through. 

    Rumour previously was that the club was trying to offload the facility to the University - some kind of sporting centre of excellence initiative by the Uni to recruit more students.

    Possibly lease it back to the Swans like Fairwood ? It never made sense having 2 such large facilities. This is another cost cutting exercise, owners trying to claw some money back any which way they can.

    To be honest, why was Landore built  in first place?
    surely Fairwood should have been built, to accommodate the two ?
    Smacks of jobs for the boys, in the construction of it, and I think we all know who benefited out of it. 
    Andrew2 was right all along, and I think he will be proved right, come the end game, as well. 

  • Update: No plans to sell. But it is an area of the club that is under constant review - something we always knew would be the case, with the reduction in income on relegation from the PL:

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/situation-swansea-citys-academy-amid-17349642
  • The thought of it sends shudders down the spine as the thinking is then “what next after this?”. However if Cat 1 status could be retained with some redevelopment at Fairwood as has been suggested then it would appear to be a sensible move. Although I did have images of Andrew2 licking his lips over this.
    JackaremeMark_Jack_London
  • It has to be common sense to upgrade Fairwood,  to accommodate the academy, and keep cat 1 status. 
    We are a small club, in the grand scheme of things. and have the cut our cloth accordingly. 
    Especially when parachute payments cease. 
    Trouble is, can you see the Yanks transferring, any monies into it?
  • Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
  • jasper_T said:
    Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
    agree there Jasper but its all about recruitment and quality of coaches while the replacement for Head of Recruitment Martin Evans will be interesting.
  • Jeff,

    One huge downside is that all clubs outside Cat 1 are wide open to have youngsters cherry picked by Cat 1 clubs, and receive pretty poor compensation. EFL clubs were effectively forced to accept the new Cat system when it was introduced or have their funding taken away from them.

    If my memory serves me right, going back to the time when we played at the Vetch Field, whatever compensation was available to pay clubs was far higher than what is in place nowadays.

    Head of Youth Development Malcolm Elias left the Swans in February 2000 to join Southampton and in July 2000 16 year old Swans midfielder Matthew Crowell signed for Southampton with a Football League tribunal in September 200 deciding that Southampton pay Swans £100k. Should he play in the first team at Southampton a further £100k was to be paid every time he plays 10 matches, up to a max total of £500k. There was also a sell on clause of 20% have to be paid if he was transferred from Southampton.

    In November 2000, 15 year old midfielder Richard Jones was transferred to Southampton with an agreed package that exceeded what Southampton were ordered by a tribunal to pay when Crowell left the Swans.

    In 2009 Emyr Hws, who had been with the Swans since the age of 7 joined Manchester City. No details of the compensation package paid.

    The following is taken from the Elite Performance Plan May 2011

    The old youth development system

    Youth development in professional football in England is currently made up of 12,067 players (Source: the Football Administration System administered by Youth Departments in the PL and FL on behalf of the clubs in each League 2011).

    There are:

    40 Academies and 51 Centres of Excellence (Three Centres of Excellence are outside the Football League) 18 Academies and two Centres of Excellence are based in the PL 22 Academies and 46 Centres of Excellence are based in the FL 24% of the players are based in the Premier League and 76% are based in the Football League

    Profile of Registered Players Season 2010/11

    Academies and Centres of Excellence

    Total Registered Players aged 16-18

    What we have now.

    Category 1 Academy - the optimum development environment for players in the youth system. Category 1 Academies will typically produce Premier League players and have the capacity to provide the optimum access to coaching in an elite environment in which the highest quality of coaching and development is provided. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 2 Academy - the second tier of Academy which will typically produce professional players in the Football League and will produce Premier League players from time to time. Players will be entitled to a core programme which delivers a Coaching Programme moving from Part Time to Hybrid during the Youth Development phase of the Performance Pathway. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 3 Academy - an entry level development environment for professional clubs that wish to maintain a Performance Pathway for players from U9. Category 3 Academies will typically produce professional players in the Football League. Players will be entitled to a Part Time Training Model through the Academy until the Professional Development Phase. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 4 Academy - a late development model where formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Professional Development Phase U17 to U21. The Category 4 Academy will provide an intensive Full Time Training Model for players in this phase. It is anticipated that Category 4 Academies will produce late developing players for the Football League and from time to time, the Premier League


    Thanks Colin but I still can't fit our old set up into one of these Categories. I've just read through some internet stuff on this but it looks like it isn't really possible to draw a comparison, The new formal academy Categories seem to operate on defined programmes - more on a nationally  prescribed curriculum (my words, not theirs), and the old set up didn't.
  • jasper_T said:
    Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
    Given the small cost differential (of the order of a couple of million a year) between the minimum spend on a Cat 1 and a Cat 2 academy, and the fact that a Cat 1 academy attracts more funding, it's hard to justify the modest saving that would be made by diminishing the status of the academy. This is especially given the context of how much the academy has brought the club in just one season - approaching £40 million. If Rodon stars in the Euors we could well get another £20 million in the summer. Even if he doesn't we're likely to get at least £10 million - which would pay for the academy for a couple of years at least.

    The bottom line is - if the academy continues to produce a profit on player sales compared to costs then it's a no-brainer to continue as a Cat 1 academy. The worrying thing about the possibility of a change of status even being discussed is that the owners are only interested in the short term. Typical hedge fund capitalists. 
    JackaremeSeaJackMark_Jack_London
  • J4cka said:
    It has to be common sense to upgrade Fairwood,  to accommodate the academy, and keep cat 1 status. 
    We are a small club, in the grand scheme of things. and have the cut our cloth accordingly. 
    Especially when parachute payments cease. 
    Trouble is, can you see the Yanks transferring, any monies into it?
    Fairwood's a bit out of the way for the youngsters if their families can't drive. 
  • Keep Landore ,churn out some promising players ,develop you stars or get 15 mil for Landore ..15mil or 1 Sam Clucas !
    I rest my case  short sighted beyond belief 
  • Jeff,

    One huge downside is that all clubs outside Cat 1 are wide open to have youngsters cherry picked by Cat 1 clubs, and receive pretty poor compensation. EFL clubs were effectively forced to accept the new Cat system when it was introduced or have their funding taken away from them.

    If my memory serves me right, going back to the time when we played at the Vetch Field, whatever compensation was available to pay clubs was far higher than what is in place nowadays.

    Head of Youth Development Malcolm Elias left the Swans in February 2000 to join Southampton and in July 2000 16 year old Swans midfielder Matthew Crowell signed for Southampton with a Football League tribunal in September 200 deciding that Southampton pay Swans £100k. Should he play in the first team at Southampton a further £100k was to be paid every time he plays 10 matches, up to a max total of £500k. There was also a sell on clause of 20% have to be paid if he was transferred from Southampton.

    In November 2000, 15 year old midfielder Richard Jones was transferred to Southampton with an agreed package that exceeded what Southampton were ordered by a tribunal to pay when Crowell left the Swans.

    In 2009 Emyr Hws, who had been with the Swans since the age of 7 joined Manchester City. No details of the compensation package paid.

    The following is taken from the Elite Performance Plan May 2011

    The old youth development system

    Youth development in professional football in England is currently made up of 12,067 players (Source: the Football Administration System administered by Youth Departments in the PL and FL on behalf of the clubs in each League 2011).

    There are:

    40 Academies and 51 Centres of Excellence (Three Centres of Excellence are outside the Football League) 18 Academies and two Centres of Excellence are based in the PL 22 Academies and 46 Centres of Excellence are based in the FL 24% of the players are based in the Premier League and 76% are based in the Football League

    Profile of Registered Players Season 2010/11

    Academies and Centres of Excellence

    Total Registered Players aged 16-18

    What we have now.

    Category 1 Academy - the optimum development environment for players in the youth system. Category 1 Academies will typically produce Premier League players and have the capacity to provide the optimum access to coaching in an elite environment in which the highest quality of coaching and development is provided. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 2 Academy - the second tier of Academy which will typically produce professional players in the Football League and will produce Premier League players from time to time. Players will be entitled to a core programme which delivers a Coaching Programme moving from Part Time to Hybrid during the Youth Development phase of the Performance Pathway. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 3 Academy - an entry level development environment for professional clubs that wish to maintain a Performance Pathway for players from U9. Category 3 Academies will typically produce professional players in the Football League. Players will be entitled to a Part Time Training Model through the Academy until the Professional Development Phase. Formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Foundation Phase at U9

    Category 4 Academy - a late development model where formal entry into the Academy will begin with the Professional Development Phase U17 to U21. The Category 4 Academy will provide an intensive Full Time Training Model for players in this phase. It is anticipated that Category 4 Academies will produce late developing players for the Football League and from time to time, the Premier League


    Thanks Colin but I still can't fit our old set up into one of these Categories. I've just read through some internet stuff on this but it looks like it isn't really possible to draw a comparison, The new formal academy Categories seem to operate on defined programmes - more on a nationally  prescribed curriculum (my words, not theirs), and the old set up didn't.
    Jeff,
    off the top of my head the one aspect of the centre of excellence as it was in 2000 was that it was based on a regional basis with Swans regularly playing Cardiff, Bristol City/Rovers, Plymouth, Exeter, Swindon, later Cheltenham. I shall try to dig out some old programmes and see what I can find out.
  • Wyn said:
    jasper_T said:
    Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
    Given the small cost differential (of the order of a couple of million a year) between the minimum spend on a Cat 1 and a Cat 2 academy, and the fact that a Cat 1 academy attracts more funding, it's hard to justify the modest saving that would be made by diminishing the status of the academy. This is especially given the context of how much the academy has brought the club in just one season - approaching £40 million. If Rodon stars in the Euors we could well get another £20 million in the summer. Even if he doesn't we're likely to get at least £10 million - which would pay for the academy for a couple of years at least.

    The bottom line is - if the academy continues to produce a profit on player sales compared to costs then it's a no-brainer to continue as a Cat 1 academy. The worrying thing about the possibility of a change of status even being discussed is that the owners are only interested in the short term. Typical hedge fund capitalists. 
    A couple of million isn't a modest saving when our total income will be £15-20m when the parachute payments expire. The total cost will be 1/3 of our club's operating budget before player sales. Rodon will likely need to be sold to cover the basic wage deficit due to us keeping Ayew (£4m + performance bonuses) and other PL hangers-on. That isn't free money to be spent on an academy. It's what ever Championship club without a sugar daddy needs to do to keep the lights on.

    Rodon is a poor example of the value of Cat 1 as he was a professional player here before we attained that status. He's an example of a player who did most of his development under much lower junior standards and wasn't poached by any big clubs despite the lack of protection. Roberts, too. The higher quality of games at u23s level contributed to development, but it's a huge cost for a better fixture calendar, some of which games we've already lost due to relegations (no more Checkatrade, division 2 PL2).
  • jasper_T said:
    Wyn said:
    jasper_T said:
    Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
    Given the small cost differential (of the order of a couple of million a year) between the minimum spend on a Cat 1 and a Cat 2 academy, and the fact that a Cat 1 academy attracts more funding, it's hard to justify the modest saving that would be made by diminishing the status of the academy. This is especially given the context of how much the academy has brought the club in just one season - approaching £40 million. If Rodon stars in the Euors we could well get another £20 million in the summer. Even if he doesn't we're likely to get at least £10 million - which would pay for the academy for a couple of years at least.

    The bottom line is - if the academy continues to produce a profit on player sales compared to costs then it's a no-brainer to continue as a Cat 1 academy. The worrying thing about the possibility of a change of status even being discussed is that the owners are only interested in the short term. Typical hedge fund capitalists. 
    A couple of million isn't a modest saving when our total income will be £15-20m when the parachute payments expire. The total cost will be 1/3 of our club's operating budget before player sales. Rodon will likely need to be sold to cover the basic wage deficit due to us keeping Ayew (£4m + performance bonuses) and other PL hangers-on. That isn't free money to be spent on an academy. It's what ever Championship club without a sugar daddy needs to do to keep the lights on.

    Rodon is a poor example of the value of Cat 1 as he was a professional player here before we attained that status. He's an example of a player who did most of his development under much lower junior standards and wasn't poached by any big clubs despite the lack of protection. Roberts, too. The higher quality of games at u23s level contributed to development, but it's a huge cost for a better fixture calendar, some of which games we've already lost due to relegations (no more Checkatrade, division 2 PL2).
    jasper_T said:
    Wyn said:
    jasper_T said:
    Keeping cat 1 isn't really common sense when you see cat 2 setups in the Championship outproducing us (Leeds, Bristol City). What does the extra few million a year get us in comparison? Top level status on par with big PL clubs is a luxury, not a necessity for developing local players.
    Given the small cost differential (of the order of a couple of million a year) between the minimum spend on a Cat 1 and a Cat 2 academy, and the fact that a Cat 1 academy attracts more funding, it's hard to justify the modest saving that would be made by diminishing the status of the academy. This is especially given the context of how much the academy has brought the club in just one season - approaching £40 million. If Rodon stars in the Euors we could well get another £20 million in the summer. Even if he doesn't we're likely to get at least £10 million - which would pay for the academy for a couple of years at least.

    The bottom line is - if the academy continues to produce a profit on player sales compared to costs then it's a no-brainer to continue as a Cat 1 academy. The worrying thing about the possibility of a change of status even being discussed is that the owners are only interested in the short term. Typical hedge fund capitalists. 
    A couple of million isn't a modest saving when our total income will be £15-20m when the parachute payments expire. The total cost will be 1/3 of our club's operating budget before player sales. Rodon will likely need to be sold to cover the basic wage deficit due to us keeping Ayew (£4m + performance bonuses) and other PL hangers-on. That isn't free money to be spent on an academy. It's what ever Championship club without a sugar daddy needs to do to keep the lights on.

    Rodon is a poor example of the value of Cat 1 as he was a professional player here before we attained that status. He's an example of a player who did most of his development under much lower junior standards and wasn't poached by any big clubs despite the lack of protection. Roberts, too. The higher quality of games at u23s level contributed to development, but it's a huge cost for a better fixture calendar, some of which games we've already lost due to relegations (no more Checkatrade, division 2 PL2).

    I believe, contract wise, that apart from Ayew, all of the squad that played in the PL are out of contract next May.
  • Jeff,
    have come across a site that photographed the Swans Cof E to give you an idea of the number of staff and youngsters the Swans employed to staff the various age groups teams. The link is for August 2009 when Tony Pennock was Head of Youth. You should be able to click on the image to enlarge.
    http://www.tempest-groups.co.uk/items/257
  • Jeff,
    have come across a site that photographed the Swans Cof E to give you an idea of the number of staff and youngsters the Swans employed to staff the various age groups teams. The link is for August 2009 when Tony Pennock was Head of Youth. You should be able to click on the image to enlarge.
    http://www.tempest-groups.co.uk/items/257
    Wow, that's a hell of a photo - thanks for digging and finding that Colin.

    I only recognise Ben Davies from the players. I had a look for Rodon and Roberts but failed to find them there.

    I'm surprised at the large number of "staff" in the photo. especially as this was 10 years ago.
  • Jeff,
    text my mate who is in the photo, one of the coaches, and he believes only 2 of the staff were full time Pennock and John Beale(both now at Hull) while the rest were part-time either in the C of Ex or in the Development Centre.
  • Jeff,
    text my mate who is in the photo, one of the coaches, and he believes only 2 of the staff were full time Pennock and John Beale(both now at Hull) while the rest were part-time either in the C of Ex or in the Development Centre.
    Fair enough Colin :)
  • Didn't Pennock leave to manage Aberystwyth? Beale is still there, I believe


  • In 2017/18 our revenue was £120m, in 2021/22 it will be somewhere in the region of £12m, running two centres may prove impossible. (this is if we don't go up this season or next, which seems unlikely).
    To run Category One you have to have an indoor barn facility, so maybe (and this is only a thought), Swansea University use all the facilities at Landore, Swansea City lease the barn back at certain times of the week and every thing continues at Fairwood with the part currently being used by the Uni being turned into classrooms.
  • I would be quite happy for our club to go down the Crewe root and rely on our academy,providing we had a manager like Graham potter playing his style of football in charge.dont think I’d have the same faith in cooper at this moment in time,but I’m willing to give him time to prove me wrong.
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