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Potter v Cooper

2nd half of last season we played some great swanselona football and were beating and dominating teams with ease. Was it just because of a different philosophy  that it happened.

Kevin Nolan at H/T on Brighton

What I like about Graham Potter is the way he's gone about his business. In his first week, he praised (former manager) Chris Hughton for the job he'd done at Brighton but said 'I want to take them in a different direction', take the shackles off the players and give them a license to play. He's also made some fantastic signings.

Maybe Cooper has put some shackles back in to improve us defensively but limit our free flwoing football of last season
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Comments

  • No doubt Potter has good credentials for motivating players to better themselves. Shame was he moved on and we now have a manager, a rookie, but one I think will stay with us and not be headhunted. I've seen us play great football this season in patches. Not as consistently perhaps as Potter but then we had our two most significant players poached. A team like ours always has to withstand the price of success and also the undermining of efforts when we have to recover from that. Cooper may not have the charisma of Potter but he has heart, even if he's not so good with the media aspect. 
    I think he's done well considering the upheaval. I hope he succeeds because he's a decent human being. Time will tell if the players respond to him. Leon and Curt were pretty adamant they had the right man. I trust their judgement.
    moorlands
  • Pablo happy new year to you and the family hope christmas went well?
    Potter left because the owners would not back him to the level required to get what he wanted and when another team from the prem came "Poaching" with a better package he was off them extending his contract  reinforces the view they can see what he can bring to the party, the 2 star guys we lost were sold by the owners were they not? as they would not put  any new money into the club and replaced with lesser quality guys ( as nice guys as they may be) who was in charge when the guys brought in recruiting wise i do not know but would put a bet on they were restricted on what they could spend and there in lies the problem the boys are doing their best but be honest are they good enough?
     the current owners did not know football in this country ( Mr Bradly)just in it to make a buck or 2 whilst i agree just throwing money at it is not the total answer some money should have been spent , as now every player out of contract from jan 1st can commit on paper to another club, am not saying we want to keep all the out of contract guys but surely this should have been sorted by now
    The Manager has to go with what he has, some agree with the way he is taking us some do not, cannot see him being sacked as again the owners are reluctant to spend to pay off him and his staff  and to be fair i think he is doing a job with one hand tied behind his back , the way we started the season shows me that what i said then was we needed some battle hardened guys in 1 or 2 positions (as we still do) that know this division and we could possibly make the play offs still.
    I know you and others will have different opinions but that what i feel the root cause is and we are still only a few points off the play offs
    Happy new  year to you and all jacks where ever you are.

  • Pete
    As I understand the rules, players out of contract in 2020 can only commit in January, to foreign clubs. Can't see too many of our players being in such high demand.
  • deekay you could be right and thanks for that
  • I don't think Potter left because the owners would not back him, a premier league club came in for him, that's different than say going to another Championship club because one club spends more than the other.
    ALL managers, no matter who you are would take the offer, just a fact that's missing from your lengthy piece Pete.
    Mark_Jack_London
  • I do see your point re the draw of a premiership club JB, but I can't help feeling that Potter would have stayed with us to see the project through if he felt it was worth it i.e if he saw an ownership model with a plan to progress the club 'to the next level' as they had promised.

    Nothing in Potters m.o. would indicate he was a fly by night glory hunter & let's face it apart from their premier league status, Brighton would not strike me as an attractive club/option, particularly as they would have been firm relegation favourites when he stepped into the hot seat there.

    Something doesn't sit right, I have said it before but Potter left at the start of something special with us....for me it wasn't so much the draw of the premier league but more that he had seen the real side of our owners & wanted away
    jasper_TYJB07
  • There is probably a mixture of both those things with the prospect of being at the helm of a Premier League club being the icing on the cake. It will be an interesting watch next season to see what Potter phase two looks like with an understanding as to what it would have meant for us had he remained at the Swans.
  • Regrettably Potter and his team left in the Summer.
    The future is now,and the trio of Birch,Britton and Cooper  hold the reins and have a strategy, so as has always been the case we go forward hopefully with success.
  • Lets drop this nonsense that Leon and Curt thought they had the correct man, they had the man that the finances would allow, in other words, we had the cheapest available.
    YJB07
  • Andrew2 said:
    Lets drop this nonsense that Leon and Curt thought they had the correct man, they had the man that the finances would allow, in other words, we had the cheapest available.
    More peevishness from the angriest of the Angry Birds:) :)
    Chris_SharmanPablo
  • of course they had the right man that "the finances would allow". what a stupid fugging comment!


  • Really Mark, we had a choice of one, not sure if that is a choice do you ?

    You still in the Monk appreciation club Mark or have you moved on from that ? Remember when you had a real love in with Monk and Jenkins, so lets not call people stupid.
    YJB07
  • Monk appreciation club. WTF?

    I was NEVER in the Monk appreciation club. 

    and as for a choice of one, they had a huge number of applicants. most if not all of whom, would have known that we didnt have a pot to piss in.

    We had managers who were at clubs already like Newport's Flynn and Charlton's Bowyer who applied, to name but two.

    So dont give me this bollocks that we had a choice of 1. 
  • Pete said:
    Pablo happy new year to you and the family hope christmas went well?
    Potter left because the owners would not back him to the level required to get what he wanted and when another team from the prem came "Poaching" with a better package he was off them extending his contract  reinforces the view they can see what he can bring to the party, the 2 star guys we lost were sold by the owners were they not? as they would not put  any new money into the club and replaced with lesser quality guys ( as nice guys as they may be) who was in charge when the guys brought in recruiting wise i do not know but would put a bet on they were restricted on what they could spend and there in lies the problem the boys are doing their best but be honest are they good enough?
     the current owners did not know football in this country ( Mr Bradly)just in it to make a buck or 2 whilst i agree just throwing money at it is not the total answer some money should have been spent , as now every player out of contract from jan 1st can commit on paper to another club, am not saying we want to keep all the out of contract guys but surely this should have been sorted by now
    The Manager has to go with what he has, some agree with the way he is taking us some do not, cannot see him being sacked as again the owners are reluctant to spend to pay off him and his staff  and to be fair i think he is doing a job with one hand tied behind his back , the way we started the season shows me that what i said then was we needed some battle hardened guys in 1 or 2 positions (as we still do) that know this division and we could possibly make the play offs still.
    I know you and others will have different opinions but that what i feel the root cause is and we are still only a few points off the play offs
    Happy new  year to you and all jacks where ever you are.

    Hey Pete, ???? Happy New Year. There are those, the majority I imagine, who feel exactly as you do. But none of it is factual. Long before the owners took over we’ve lost our best players. Sadly it how it goes for clubs like us who have to sell for profit to sustain us. We even cashed in on Trunds. First ones I recall in the modern era were Jason Scotland and Jordi Gomez, then Scott Sinclair. We also lost Roberto, Brendan, paolo Sousa etc. It didn’t begin with the Americans. To echo Jollyboy, pPotter left for the prem, a fat wage increase and money to spend. Every manager would do the same.
  • Jordi  Gomez wasn’t our player he was here on loan and the old board wouldn’t sanction a money transfer for him at the time which may have helped Robertos decision to move to Wigan 
    SeaJack
  • The Potter era has been sealed signed and delivered. He didn’t get us to the Premier League on the first attempt and as for the second phase of the Potter project it was was scuppered so we will never know the true value of having had him at the helm for another season. The juries still out with Cooper as he has yet to complete a full season here with us. I must admit to being uneasy somewhat with regards to some of the results plus more importantly the performances to date which have left a lot to be desired on many occasions. However I am mindful of the unease on here with some of Potter’s decision making and some of the results at times also. Both are flawed managers as is the case with many others so we just have to strap in and enjoy the ride as best we can and hope that Lady Luck smiles down on us also. Luck plays a part in the scheme of things and at our level especially is something that shouldn’t be underestimated.
    Mark_Jack_London
  • enaitch said:
    Jordi  Gomez wasn’t our player he was here on loan and the old board wouldn’t sanction a money transfer for him at the time which may have helped Robertos decision to move to Wigan 
    you're correct! though it had no bearing on Roberto's Wigan move that was down to his past association with the director Whelan, and being one of the Three Amigos. It cannot be denied that we are a club that has to sell to survive, like a lot of clubs. This fact has absolutely nothing to do with the current owners. 
    enaitch
  • Just looked at the team that beat Aston Villa away last year in round 3 of the F A Cup ,

                        Mulder ,

    Naughton , Van de Hoorn , Rodon , Robert's, 

        Grimes , Fer , Celina ,

        Routledge  , Baker Richardson  , Dyer ,

    Subs , Nordfeldt  , Narsingh , McKay,  James ,Fulton , Byers 
    Harries 

    Interesting to see that team and compare it to the Q. P. R. Game ,
    Jackareme
  • What will become problematic with us being a selling club is the number of loanees that we currently have flooding the team. As good as they may be, whatever their value is as an asset will never benefit the club. Our assets column has gone down considerably this season as a result of this and that particular business model will be the weaker for it as we prepare for the summer transfer period.
  • Right now it is more important that we don't carry a big permanent wage bill while we are facing two more cliff edges in our finances thanks to diminishing parachute payments. It would be stupid to sign players permanently right now when we don't know if we can afford to keep them beyond the end of the season. Loans are absolutely the right way to go at the moment. As for the idea that the loan players are keeping U23s out for the first team, and thus out of the shop window for future sales, we have seen two players make a very strong showing so far this season already (Ben and Jordan) and another one showing a lot of promise (Brandon) - not a bad haul considering.

    As for the argument that Potter left because he wasn't supported, I'll ask again, would you rather Potter was our manager now with Ryan Woods on the sidelines and Connor and/or Joe for sale to cover the wasted £6.5m? Clearly we all enjoyed the football more under Potter (most of the time) but this time last year we were five points and five places below where we are now and heading in the opposite direction to our current trajectory.
    Pablo
  • We could potentially be 5 places below where we are now before we play our next game.


  • SeaJack said:
    What will become problematic with us being a selling club is the number of loanees that we currently have flooding the team. As good as they may be, whatever their value is as an asset will never benefit the club. Our assets column has gone down considerably this season as a result of this and that particular business model will be the weaker for it as we prepare for the summer transfer period.
    What was most concerning from the players who played(including the subs) v QPR is that 9 of them (Roberts, Bidwell, Cooper, John, Fulton, McKay, Peterson, Byers and Celina) are on contract for at least another season while just 5 (including loanee Kalulu)are of of contract.

    From your post how many would you think judged on the QPR game are actually an asset? Three players(Bidwell, Peterson and Kalulu) were signed last summer while the remainder were signed either by Potter or the previous manager. Excepting Cooper as he came through the academy.
  • until we can get big contracted players off the bill, then we have little options, SeaJack.

    Once the decks have been cleared, I think we'll still use the loan market, but hopefully not the same extent as we have currently.

    A big worry is we are currently in a similar situation as Villa were at the start of this season.

    When they were promoted, they had to replace a crazy number of out of contract players (12 or 13 I think) and something like 8 loanees - some of which they made into permanent transfers.




  • jasper_T said:
    We could potentially be 5 places below where we are now before we play our next game.



    Indeed. At which point we would still have five points more than Potter's team did at the same point last year.

    But following your logic, if we win our next game we could be in third place, three wins off an automatic promotion place.

    Potter went on to draw match 27, dropping to 13th in the table. Let's hope Cooper does better.
  • SeaJack said:
    What will become problematic with us being a selling club is the number of loanees that we currently have flooding the team. As good as they may be, whatever their value is as an asset will never benefit the club. Our assets column has gone down considerably this season as a result of this and that particular business model will be the weaker for it as we prepare for the summer transfer period.
    What was most concerning from the players who played(including the subs) v QPR is that 9 of them (Roberts, Bidwell, Cooper, John, Fulton, McKay, Peterson, Byers and Celina) are on contract for at least another season while just 5 (including loanee Kalulu)are of of contract.

    From your post how many would you think judged on the QPR game are actually an asset? Three players(Bidwell, Peterson and Kalulu) were signed last summer while the remainder were signed either by Potter or the previous manager. Excepting Cooper as he came through the academy.
    Roberts, Byers and Fulton also academy, admittedly the latter bought in.
  • The loan market certainly  helped Derby last season ,
    Tomori , Mason Mount and Harry Wilson helped them over achieve  , this season without them and Frank Lampard are struggling  ,

    Loan signings can help both clubs , its finding good young talent and giving them game time and experience  to progress ,

    Going back in time to the canny Scot Frank Burrows he allegedly  had a little black book with all the contacts and young players in there 
  • SeaJack said:
    What will become problematic with us being a selling club is the number of loanees that we currently have flooding the team. As good as they may be, whatever their value is as an asset will never benefit the club. Our assets column has gone down considerably this season as a result of this and that particular business model will be the weaker for it as we prepare for the summer transfer period.
    What was most concerning from the players who played(including the subs) v QPR is that 9 of them (Roberts, Bidwell, Cooper, John, Fulton, McKay, Peterson, Byers and Celina) are on contract for at least another season while just 5 (including loanee Kalulu)are of of contract.

    From your post how many would you think judged on the QPR game are actually an asset? Three players(Bidwell, Peterson and Kalulu) were signed last summer while the remainder were signed either by Potter or the previous manager. Excepting Cooper as he came through the academy.
    Roberts, Byers and Fulton also academy, admittedly the latter bought in.
    Fulton had played close to 100 senior games when we signed him and played in the first team within a few months of joining. Stretches the definition of "came through the academy" to its limit.

    "Stuck in the reserves for a few seasons" fits better.
  • I am sure Cooper is well aware of a lot of young talent around the globe from his time at the U17s. either scouting for inclusion in the England team, or players he has been up against.

    Like Lorient’s Julien Ponceau, we are being linked to.

    It's a balance though. Too many loans and you could come unstuck when they all go. And you do stop some of our own youngsters coming through.

    I think we need to send more out, as part of their development too. Cullen would be one. B. Cooper another.
    SeaJack
  • Malc said:
    The loan market certainly  helped Derby last season ,
    Tomori , Mason Mount and Harry Wilson helped them over achieve  , this season without them and Frank Lampard are struggling  ,

    Loan signings can help both clubs , its finding good young talent and giving them game time and experience  to progress ,

    Going back in time to the canny Scot Frank Burrows he allegedly  had a little black book with all the contacts and young players in there 
    In Derby's case those three had significant senior experience before arriving. They were all proven beyond development level fixtures. 
  • Colin, the permanent player column in terms of assets does look a bit on the ropey side when you consider the players that we have to sell. Certainly there are some that the club would have trouble in selling anytime soon. I didn’t see or hear the QPR game but the comments on here and Planet Swans suggest that the awful players dragged down the better players to their level. Thankfully the better players, surrounded by more competent players will be given the chance to prove themselves again in the league with the chance to cement themselves in Swans folklore history with a double over Cardiff.
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