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Why Cooper has to be sacked

edited July 1 in Swansea City
Firstly before I go into my reasoning can I just say I am somebody who likes to give a manager time and not just change my mind week after week. The fact is 40 games is enough time to draw conclusions and Cooper has to go. His team does the same thing week in week out and rely purely on the odd individual like Ayew or Brewster to do something.
His tactics are the same 4-2-3-1 very slow, technically poor with no evident game plan never altered depending on what the opposition do. The lesser teams in the division have sat back at the Liberty and Cooper hasn’t a clue how to deal with it. 
Cooper clearly presented himself as an attack minded, defensive coach but his Swansea team are organised defensively and that’s about it. This Swansea team won’t include Rodon, Ayew and Brewster next year imagine that. 
YJB07
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Comments

  • Agree with @Charlie10. Yesterday was awful. We were actually outplayed by Millwall! Not outmuscled as sometimes I'd expect by Millwall but outplayed. They played triangles (at times) attacked with pace and width, everything synonymous with how we used to play. At least with Potter we used to try and play width and pacey. Everything was so slow and mundane, likewise v Luton. Cooper has to go unfortunately. 
    YJB07
  • First six league games in August: 2.7 pts per game.

    Games 7 to 40: 1.2 pts per game. 

    Basically, if you discount the first 6 games as a freak (which personally I do) then the rest of the season extrapolated over a full 46 games represents a team that would have flirted with relegation but just about stayed up.

    If we don't make a change this summer, then we are going to struggle under this manager next season. Simple as that.
  • How can you sack a guy whose 8th in the league.whose got one of the youngest inexperienced squads in the division.i can understand iff we had spent 20m last summer and were one of the favourites for promotion! There’s going to be a big clear out in the summer and I would expect a lot of new arrivals,let’s see what kind of squad he puts together for next season and give him a chance!
    jasper_TPablo
  • There lies the problem half the players on show last night will not be here next season so the rebuilding will start all over again however due to the ongoing pandemic and lack of funds to buy new players we will have the likes of McKay and Asoro to fill two spots plus I presume Cullen will be our main striker 
  • No chance enaitch,I bet there will be at least 8 new players in next season iff not more.
  • edited July 1
    65 points and 10th last season,could be no worse this year,possibly better,
    If you ask me not a disastrous showing with so many  young loanees and academy promotions.
    You may not like the style but look at Stoke,Huddersfield etc ,would you swap positions today with our former PL colleagues?
    The project was made clear at the start of the season --scout for talent at affordable prices,use loans and develope young players in house.
    The retained list shows that they are continuing the youth route and presumably they have identified targets they can afford.
    I suspect that TB will stick to his plan, and refrain from the desperate panic decision making of the late Jenkins era,which got us nowhere.
    I agree with Brownie---give him a chance.
  • He's had chances. He had January, brought in the kids he wanted, and we look worse than before.

    Under Potter we were better the second half of the season once he'd stopped rotating and settled on a strong regular side. Under Cooper we had a great first month of results and it's been objectively poor since. Patience requires he show some sort of positive progress at some point, surely?
    Jackareme
  • the most important person at our club right now is Andy Scott - because if he don't pull about 8-10 rabbits out of the hat in the very short "close season' we are phuqed.

  • I hope I’m wrong but with teams facing financial meltdown at present ie Wigan as an example there won’t be many players being bought in the lower leagues . And those higher up won’t be splashing millions unless there one of the top eight or so . I understand that we have one more parachute payment but that will go a long way to cover costs as it could be next year when fans are allowed back in stadiums. Here in Wales the senedd has already said no large gatherings till 2021 
  • Will be more challenging  conditions  in the next few years , think I said a few weeks ago there are 1,400 players out of contract  throughout  the Championship  and E F L   , so there will be plenty of opportunities  of finding good players , recruitment  is the key ,
  • I share the frustration as the mainly young professionals fill the bulk of the first team places.I also share the view that we are currently 8th and will probably finish somewhere around 12th.For all those reasons I can understand the desire to give Cooper another chance.
    Our team does not value possession and gift the ball to opposition far too often.
    Very few players  are finding space, they are mainly static.They do not seek to provide an outlet when we are in possession.
    We are playing mainly sideways or backwards.
    We therefore invite opposition regardless of their quality to press high and force us into mistakes.
    Apart from Ayew we have few players to offer any form of aerial challenge and as a small team we are being outmuscled by the physically larger opposition.
    Several of our players appear fit for up to half an hour and then when they lose possession they stop , rather than try to win the ball back, increasing pressure on our back four.

    If the club is to persevere with the current management team then we need to change
    our training and tactics and team make up.It is hardly surprising that Leon decided to leave when he did, as everything he excelled at on the pitch has been sacrificed.






    enaitch
  • I know its frustrating but we have to continue with Cooper, no knee ****** reaction, we've done that in the past and changing managers regularly has put us where we are.
    All clubs in the championship are close to admin, more so since Covid 19, Brum are very close, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday may have embargo's and points deductions and the way Stoke City have gone about their business can only mean trouble down the line (not financial because of Coates but FFP).
    I'd be looking at a succession plan, saying that, I'd always be looking at a succession plan because if a manager turns out crap he will get fired and if he proves to be good, he will get poached. Sad but true.
    Pablo

  • jollyboy said:
    I know its frustrating but we have to continue with Cooper, no knee ****** reaction, we've done that in the past and changing managers regularly has put us where we are.
    All clubs in the championship are close to admin, more so since Covid 19, Brum are very close, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday may have embargo's and points deductions and the way Stoke City have gone about their business can only mean trouble down the line (not financial because of Coates but FFP).
    I'd be looking at a succession plan, saying that, I'd always be looking at a succession plan because if a manager turns out crap he will get fired and if he proves to be good, he will get poached. Sad but true.
    Don't like the word J E R K
    Webmaster
  • If changing managers got us where we are do you think persisting with Monk or Clement would have kept us in the PL?
  • @jollyboy 'All clubs in the championship are close to admin' WE ARE NOT

    Was watching the results yesterday re Stoke and today with Hull/Boro playing. I want to see them go down because of how they are doing things financially. Relegation will ensure they cannot get promotion to Prem Lge and escape punishment.

    So this morning before seeing your post I went looking for Stokes financials then ours. WOW WOW WOW What an absolutely massive difference in the way both clubs are run. I will post a thread later so everyone can see the dire straits Stoke are in and the fantastic position we are in visa vi financials
  • Martyn said:
    @jollyboy 'All clubs in the championship are close to admin' WE ARE NOT

    Was watching the results yesterday re Stoke and today with Hull/Boro playing. I want to see them go down because of how they are doing things financially. Relegation will ensure they cannot get promotion to Prem Lge and escape punishment.

    So this morning before seeing your post I went looking for Stokes financials then ours. WOW WOW WOW What an absolutely massive difference in the way both clubs are run. I will post a thread later so everyone can see the dire straits Stoke are in and the fantastic position we are in visa vi financials
    Because we have taken the hard medicine that there is light at the end of the tunnel, however, that doesn't mean we are through the tunnel.
    Next season will be our third and final year of Parachute money, that's when we really have to tighten our belts further.
  • jasper_T said:
    If changing managers got us where we are do you think persisting with Monk or Clement would have kept us in the PL?
    in my opinion changing managers is an occupational hazard for a club like ours - and it should not mean the wheels falling off BUT ONLY if you have a club ethos and pattern of play and recruit managers that fit the pattern. Yes things evolve with different managers but fundamentally you will have continuity both in what is expected of the players and the type of players you recruit.
    Monk Clement Cooper (Carvalhal/Guidolin - discuss!!)  are a sea change from our ethos and we struggled as a result because we are not "tooled up" to play the way they want us to.
    Yes we can squeak out results as per Monk and Carvalhal and even Clement - but this type of appointment erodes our identity and eventually leaves us identical to the herd.
    When we have the perfect manager (Potter IMO) we need to double down on him and create a boot room of disciples for succession planning - instead we created an environment where he was encouraged to walk away and leave us rudderless.
    For all the "poor Leon needs a rest" bollocks that was pushed out - I strongly suspect we have just encouraged (created the environment) for another huge asset to leave.
  • jasper_T said:
    He's had chances. He had January, brought in the kids he wanted, and we look worse than before.

    Under Potter we were better the second half of the season once he'd stopped rotating and settled on a strong regular side. Under Cooper we had a great first month of results and it's been objectively poor since. Patience requires he show some sort of positive progress at some point, surely?
    big difference between this and last season.

    he had less than 2 months to pull gel a team with those new players, before the lockdown. And I doubt he's been able to do too much work since.

    Whereas Potter has no new players to integrate, but had finally worked out what his best team was from the same players he had at the start of the season. PLUS he had Dan James with fire in his belly after his aborted move to Leeds. He was a different player from then onwards.

    That's not to say that Cooper should not be doing better. 

    But let's not try comparing the two on that basis. Their relative situations are miles apart.


  • Biggest difference between last season and this is the percentage of possession, number of passes completed, and entertainment value.
  • As for the cost of sacking Cooper. 

    2 potential costs.

    1. any pay-off for him and his staff. You'd hope there is a break-clause if he doesnt achieve certain goals. Cant see him missing out on that. So depends if he has a rolling contract or not.
    2. the relative costs of recruiting another manager, putting them in place in good time to kick off the new season - which will be a quick turnaround this season.

    I just dont see him failing badly enough for them to fire the bullet this side of Xmas, or maybe even next summer. 
  • I would revisit his job interview with him and tell him that there are expectations about the way that Swansea teams play. He has the summer transfer window to assemble a squad for next year - BUT we need to see passing, attacking football AND we need to see our young talent getting better NOT worse.
  • Brownie said:
    How can you sack a guy whose 8th in the league.whose got one of the youngest inexperienced squads in the division.i can understand iff we had spent 20m last summer and were one of the favourites for promotion! There’s going to be a big clear out in the summer and I would expect a lot of new arrivals,let’s see what kind of squad he puts together for next season and give him a chance!
    Brownie,
    what I find irritating about Cooper, excusing earlier in the season that he was a relatively inexperienced modern coach(for this level of football) is what has turned out to be an almost total inflexibility with players, team formation, use of substitutes and an inherent knack of making good players look very ordinary. Potter was criticized heavily during the first half of last season and instead of bringing in a raft of young professionals, he became consistent with his team selections and ended the season playing attractive football.

    Two examples are Gallagher and Grimes. Many fans were creaming themselves over Gallagher earlier in the season at Charlton and wished he played for the Swans and when he signed, promotion in their eyes looked a step closer. But what does SC do. He plays Gallagher in a role almost opposite to where he impressed at Charlton.  
    Grimes emits the body language and form of a player that struggled during his loan spells at Leeds and Blackburn and no doubt can't believe he could be at the crossroads of a career that looked so bright last summer under GP, a more experienced, yet a more adaptable coach.

    We only have one player in the squad-Fulton, who can play the defensive midfielder role alongside Grimes, where either or both need to break the game up, regain possession, and take pressure off his central defenders. But in all honesty Fulton isn't the answer as his lack of pace severely inhibits him to the vital breakdown area. What SC has done is utilize either Byers or Gallagher to work alongside Grimes where both are more effective in and around the opposition half. But shouldn't that squad deficiency needed to be addressed when the January window re-opened when we were looking to bring in loan players. Having said that, there were many occasions last season where Grimes, Fulton, Byers, McKay and Dhanda were selected by Potter in central midfield and the same problem was evident.

    His refusal throughout the season in a facet of the game-utilizing substitutes-that can 'refresh' the team, impact on tiredness in the opposition during the last fifteen minutes where you are chasing the game or looking to close it down is puzzling. Remove injuries that forced a substitution, we have almost become a team a coach relies on to start and finish the game with the least amount of changes. Yet, when the subject of re-starting the season was discussed the EFL felt it was vitally important to increase the amount of available substitutes to nine players because of lower fitness levels caused by the pandemic and the importance of re-starting the season asap.

    More concerning to me is that 'whichever player' is going to be recommended by Scott when the season ends and the transfer window re-opens, do we have confidence that the same aspects of his management / coaching are going to remain the same.

    You don't have to possess three giants as Millwall had to play the three centre back formation but the effect it had was to release a right back(Romeo) free to attack down the flank and a player no better than our Connor. Connor down the right, Dan on the left and Bersant spare in the middle certainly changed the second half of last season.

    No doubt there will be players leaving after the season has been completed and a fair amount of cash will enter the club's bank account. Throw in the last parachute payment plus hopefully offloading Ayew off the monthly wage bill, at this moment, in my mind, it is questionable whether or not we have the right man to not only retain our Championship place, compete for a Play Off position, but to spend the cash wisely and remedy the deficiencies that exist now.

    Apologies for the post being a tad long winded but I have chewed over, weighed up, mulled over the above statement long before the epidemic and there is only one conclusion, and that Birch should draw SC to one side after the last game of the season and say thank you, but you have to go.


    JackaremeJeff_Cowbridgemoorlands
  • Should not have sacked Guidolin - We played good football but had an arse of games in a row. I didn’t expect many points from them.
    I struggle with what Cooper is trying to do. Is it much different to Clement? No movement, no through passes, ponderous two or three touch passing. Defence is shored up though.

    Would Jenkins have found us another manager to play the way we want to play football??!

    Club is in a good position financially compared to others around us and that is more important than anything.
    Mark_Jack_London
  • Never too long Colin.Good analysis and logic.
    Good discussion here today.
    Jackareme
  • The most disappointing thing to me is the style of play.  Maybe I'm wearing rose-coloured spectacles looking back in time, but when we tried to play the "Swansea way", I was never more proud to be a Swans fan.  We were the envy of every fan of similar sized clubs for many a year under RM, BR, and ML.  Then it went away until Potter started to bring it back.  Now under Cooper we are just another run-of-the mill Championship club playing run-of-the-mill Championship football.  Even if we finish higher than last season, it will be hard to argue that the future looks brighter than it did just before Potter upped and left.

    Should we fire Cooper?  Only if there is someone brave enough and talented enough to get us playing attractive football again.  Those gems are hard to find.  But his payoff would eat up a lot of cash we can't afford.  He's staying, like it or not.
  • A really good take on the situation Colin
  • Colin was spot on and people who say give him a chance what are they basing that on? He’s been in charge for 40 games and if you take a couple of early freak results out we would be batting relegation and you would all be calling for him to go.
    Stye of play is clearly rigid 4-2-3-1 for 90 minutes regardless of situation. Tempo of play doesn’t change and there’s no attacking threat or energy. What is worrying is Cooper himself said the style won’t change and somehow indicated we have played attacking, passing football! If he hasn’t got the ability to see his teams style is not passing and attacking what hope is there for him? Also Cooper has a tendency to provide excuses like the players being tired yet has has 5 subs and uses 2.
    In January Cooper was giving two young players who get into any team in this league Gallagher and Brewster. Gallagher scored 6
    at Charlton ain’t got one here and Brewster has carried the goal threat but is not used correctly. 
    People saying they can’t afford to sack him I think its nonsense it’s his first job he won’t be on big wages and neither will his staff. 
  • I am not one for a knee ******** (i saved the auto correct a job) reaction. BUT I think a 40 game trend is statistically enough to tell you the direction we are headed. The eyeball test is also pretty alarming.
    IF the plan is to wheel Cooper and team out again next year - then there has to be a couple of very clear directions given IMMEDIATELY (as this season is done already)
    FIRST we return to the blueprint that he was hired to implement
    SECOND we get some support for the coaching team who understands what it takes to break down well organized defences and can coach our attacking play
    THIRD we start recruiting and retaining players who fit the Swansea Way right now - and not recruit to fit whatever pattern Cooper has in his head.
    i am trying to be fair to a rookie manager - but my club is not some laboratory for a kid to have fun in - it is way too important for that!!
    FyldeJackmoorlandsgarythenotrashcougarSeaJack
  • Got enthused and hit Post too soon - i did want to say that there are coaches out there who are gagging for a job like ours - and we would be inundated with CV's should the position open up. Our club is still one of the top 300 clubs in world football and ranked 20th in the England pyramid. see attached https://footballdatabase.com/clubs-ranking/swansea-city  
    We have a VERY known quantity coaching successfully at Paphos who would be a safe appointment and return our identity (although we would need a slice of humble pie with the job offer) and i am sure he is one of many. Just as an indication Paphos are ranked 890 in world football compared to our 257. So lets not lose sight of the fact that we remain an attractive job.
    FyldeJackSeaJack
  • Wigan are in financial bother. Colin messaged me earlier and suggested the very excellent Paul Cook as someone to consider.

    Plays decent football. Used to working on a shoestring. Not sure he'd relocate, being a Liverpool boy.
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