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Difficult to fathom

Those that say they don't want us to go up as we are not ready, are they the same ones who said it in 2011?
One of my mates even said the owners don't want us to go up, I cannot, for the life of me, work that one out, there's no doubt, they would sell if they could and at the moment we are worth naff all, come next Tuesday, the club could be worth far more than the £68m purchase price in 2016.

Comments

  • This is my thoughts ,
    The 2011 team had been in the making for a few years , Rodgers had 9 players ready to go , he only needed a goalkeeper  who wouldn't  re sign , and a centre  forward , Danny Graham was the target  ,

    Now we have 5 loan players and 5 out of contract , not the ideal situation  , uncertainty  doesn't  help confidence  ,
    Also a mistrust  of the owners , so you can see this time there are lots of issues  to be sorted ,
    In 2011
    The stability  within the club and a strong team on the pitch they thought they could succeed  and so it proved   
    enaitch
  • I don't think you can pick and choose when you get promoted, if opportunities arrive you have to grab them with both hands. We're not a superclub, the next opportunity is not just around the corner, they don't come often, so seize the day.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the current setup is considerably inferior to 2011 though. Even with reinforcements, I think we would struggle badly in the PL - mainly because we have owners who will only spend the minimum possible, and because Cooper's neanderthal style of play will leave us badly exposed. 

    But not wanting us to go up? I agree - that's a rubbish outlook.
    Colin_swanseaSeaJackPabloSVJack
  • Many would suggest that the quality of the Championship this season is not as strong as when we were promoted after beating Reading, and how many were quick to say then we would be back in the Championship in twelve months time.

    As a team now we are a different prospect to many months prior to the lockdown and no doubts not only Brentford have realized it, but also Fulham and Cardiff.

    Nobody thought we would have borrowed the likes of Brewster, Guehi or Gallagher but I have no doubts that if we get the rub of the green there will be plenty of young, quality footballers being made available to us.

    SeaJack
  • I'd take what's on offer every time, if we do go up, our owners would possibly sell up, some would be happy but there's no guarantee that the next incumbents will be any better and if I am to give the Americans any credit, through Trevor Birch, they have steadied the ship, made us competitive and haven't run up major debt, we all have to be thankful for that.

    Here's my scenario, we need to find £8-£10m each season to make us competitive (as a championship club), we've done OK until know because of parachute money but when that runs out would you put that money in knowing that it'll be gone within a year, OK, they could gamble in the hope of that money being returned should we gain promotion but Stoke prove that throwing money at a situation doesn't always work, plus we, as a club would be in debt to the owners.
    It works at Stoke because Coates is a Stoke nut and I'm sure if any of us were billionaires, we'd do the same.
  • edited July 28
    Many would suggest that the quality of the Championship this season is not as strong as when we were promoted after beating Reading, and how many were quick to say then we would be back in the Championship in twelve months time.

    As a team now we are a different prospect to many months prior to the lockdown and no doubts not only Brentford have realized it, but also Fulham and Cardiff.

    Nobody thought we would have borrowed the likes of Brewster, Guehi or Gallagher but I have no doubts that if we get the rub of the green there will be plenty of young, quality footballers being made available to us.

    I agree with that Colin, and IMO, football has changed since 2011, you build a team with an 18 month shelf life, if you need to borrow, the bigger clubs are happy as they can watch their youngsters sink or swim, you need a sprinkling of seniors and we need our own conveyor belt. If we do go up, I'd like to see some of the riches of the PL protecting our Academy for the next 10 years. I fear for the Academy if we don't make it. (cat 1 will become cat 3)
  • Many would suggest that the quality of the Championship this season is not as strong as when we were promoted after beating Reading, and how many were quick to say then we would be back in the Championship in twelve months time.

    As a team now we are a different prospect to many months prior to the lockdown and no doubts not only Brentford have realized it, but also Fulham and Cardiff.

    Nobody thought we would have borrowed the likes of Brewster, Guehi or Gallagher but I have no doubts that if we get the rub of the green there will be plenty of young, quality footballers being made available to us.


    The difference between this side and 2011 is its heavy reliance on loans. Back then we had a good core of 15 permanent players who had been around a while and had grown alongside the club, supplemented by the occasional loan such as Borini, Priskin or Easter where we were a little light. 

    As you know Colin from my previous posts on this subject, I'm a huge sceptic of being overreliant on the loan market. While I don't doubt for a minute you're correct in that promotion would have players queuing up to join us, my concern would be on what basis? 

    If our board were only going to sanction the odd permanent signing but mostly loans, for me that would not be the way to go to build a team capable of staying in the Premier League long term. You need players committed, with roots. Not coming down here, having a look around and seeing how it goes for the first couple of months. 

    That sort of thing went a long way to getting us relegated - wouldn't want to see us getting burnt in the same way again. I'd rather us buy 2 or 3 good, committed players outright than sanction the equivalent spend on 5 or 6 loanees like Abraham or Sanches, passengers both. 
  • Onwards and most definitely upwards is my opinion. The chance for promotion to the Premier League this season is too good a chance to pass up. Grab the bull by the horns I say and worry about being royally impaled when we get there.
  • Gary,
    Don't forget, there was fair amount of re-building required after we gained promotion which either saw players who were prominent in the promotion team leaving (De Vries, Pratley) or the likes of Tate, Monk, Dobbie, Agustin not deemed good enough.   
    I don't think Tammy is that bad a player while the decision to hang the transfer of Gylfi out just prior to the window closing certainly impacted on Sanchez's fitness.
  • Colin ,
    The nucleus  for a good side was there , Vorm was a late addition  Caulker  on loan and Danny Graham all key signings  , we also had experienced  pros like Orlandi , Moore,  Lita and as you said Monk , Tate , Dobbie and Agustin  , also signed Routledge   
  • Gary,
    Don't forget, there was fair amount of re-building required after we gained promotion which either saw players who were prominent in the promotion team leaving (De Vries, Pratley) or the likes of Tate, Monk, Dobbie, Agustin not deemed good enough.   
    I don't think Tammy is that bad a player while the decision to hang the transfer of Gylfi out just prior to the window closing certainly impacted on Sanchez's fitness.

    Fair points Colin

    Tammy definitely a very good player as we are seeing now at Chelsea, however it is my view his attitude left a lot to be desired here, especially after Carlos arrived and he lost his place. He was mentally back in West London for the last 6 months from what I could see. 

    Anyway - all of this is pie in the sky, we're not even promoted... yet  ;)
  • We also had Leon, who was our David Silva, we also had Joe maturing, well done to Martin Morgan for bringing Leon back, and not that he knew it at the time but well done to trevor birch for allowing his to come back.
  • There you go Jollyboy , pick the bones out of that  , lots of reasons for you , like to be promoted , will not worry if we don't  
  • Definitely you take the promotion when it's on offer. Even if we come back down again. If we rebuild sensibly, then if we come back down again, we wont be in such a bad position as the last relegation.

    Also, while the Championship in many eyes is not that strong. The bottom of the PL isnt as strong either. 
  • jollyboy said:
    Those that say they don't want us to go up as we are not ready, are they the same ones who said it in 2011?
    One of my mates even said the owners don't want us to go up, I cannot, for the life of me, work that one out, there's no doubt, they would sell if they could and at the moment we are worth naff all, come next Tuesday, the club could be worth far more than the £68m purchase price in 2016.

    Are there really Swans supporters saying they don't want us to go up? I would imagine the numbers saying that could be counted on the fingers of one hand belonging to a careless lathe operator. Many more, I imagine, are saying we are not ready to go up. I'm one. But if we do go up I will be screaming as loudly as anyone and I will enjoy next season even if we go straight back down again.

    I suspect that your mate who said the owners don't want us to go up has been reading Andrew2's posts.
    FyldeJack
  • Of course you take the chance of promotion when it is there, even if you feel deep down that the club / team isn't prepared for it, just look at teams like Forest, Wednesday and Derby who will do almost anything to get back in the PL!
  • Promotion like all other opportunities in life come along when they do rather when anyone is ready or not.

    Having said that we would have a lot of work to do in the very short off season this year.

    But that is getting ahead of ourselves, only tonight to worry about for now.

    COYS
    SeaJack
  • If we are able to keep the win tonight and get the win in the playoff final, I feel that the players who are due to leave will sign new contracts with the club, and the scouting team will be ready, willing and able to bring in the necessary permanent/loan players to bring us up to speed. I could see a definite return on loan for Brewster and Gallagher for example. As for who else would arrive I’m sure they will be a good fit for the team. Here’s hoping anyway.
  • Teams like Swansea don't have a given right to be in the PL but when it comes around, we have to grab it with both hands, remember the Cardiff fans in 2011, (and some Swansea fans), you'll be one season wonders, then it was second season syndrome, then you'll be relegated next year for sure, 7 seasons we lasted which made me proud. Hand on heart, who thought that we would last 7 seasons?.
    As for Andrew2, he said that each year we'd fail, then when we finally did, the ****** uttered the famous line, I told you so, and the git is hoping for us to lose tonight.
  • I do wonder about him now. He seems to have shown his true colours on the “Hope for Defeat?” post that he put up on the forum board. It was a definite attempt to gatecrash the party beginning to gain momentum on here when we got into the playoffs. If he’s at all happy with the situation as it stands with regards to the Swans being one game away from a playoff final, and two games away from promotion to the Premier League, then he’s keeping his cards close to his chest.
  • I couldn't care less if we are ready or not, I want us to get promotion.

    The longer you stay in the championship the harder it is to get out.

    Its easier getting players, keeping players and decent loans when in the Premier League.

    Ask Notts Forrest, Sunderland, Bolton, Blackburn fans if they are happy where they are because they are not.

    Sheffield, AV or Norwich were not ready. 2 survived 1 didn't.

    Leeds and WBA are not ready, they have the style but will need one or two.

    Lets hope we do it because there is no certainty this opportunity will come again soon  
    moorlands
  • Phillip,
    there’s nothing certain in life so since when is it in football.

    It’s that easier to recruit players for the PL and the one certainty is that they will cost more once agents are aware that teams looking to sign their ‘clients’ realize they are from the money tree named Premier League.

    Having money or large gates does not always bring you promotion, Forest, Derby and Sunderland can vouch for that and can Blackburn or Bolton expect anything in the game from the type of owners they have had.

    The vital ingredient for a successful club is a balance of good kids coming through an academy, top recruitment to utilize whatever cash is available to sign quality players and a good head coach / manager. Even then it’s not 100% guaranteed as WBA can vouch for that.

    The basic building blocks at ‘big’ Championship teams have been rotten to the core and it’s only in recent seasons that Leeds have been able to address the problem.

    If its your day, and luck is with you most clubs like ours will embrace promotion and address the ‘monster’ that is the PL accordingly. Are we that type of club that can do it any other way?
  • Phillip,
    there’s nothing certain in life so since when is it in football.

    It’s that easier to recruit players for the PL and the one certainty is that they will cost more once agents are aware that teams looking to sign their ‘clients’ realize they are from the money tree named Premier League.

    Having money or large gates does not always bring you promotion, Forest, Derby and Sunderland can vouch for that and can Blackburn or Bolton expect anything in the game from the type of owners they have had.

    The vital ingredient for a successful club is a balance of good kids coming through an academy, top recruitment to utilize whatever cash is available to sign quality players and a good head coach / manager. Even then it’s not 100% guaranteed as WBA can vouch for that.

    The basic building blocks at ‘big’ Championship teams have been rotten to the core and it’s only in recent seasons that Leeds have been able to address the problem.

    If its your day, and luck is with you most clubs like ours will embrace promotion and address the ‘monster’ that is the PL accordingly. Are we that type of club that can do it any other way?
    I think Leeds are the exception, he has taken over the squad he was given and were going nowhere.

    His style of management is different, he has been playing hard press with teams for over 25 years.

    His players have to be incredibly fit, in the first year they burnt out, this year they were great. 

    There are no super stars, everything is a team effort, his energy is relentless.

    Brentford are similar but have better players individually, lets hope they are burnt out for tonight
  • I believe Bielsa is the exception. The man is an absolute coaching genius, but a genius of delivery on the pitch as well.

    He is the only manager I wish we had recruited. That isnt a criticism of Graham Potter or Steve Cooper, as I rate them both, its just that Bielsa is that good.

    Its hard for me to say it as Leeds arent any favourite of mine, but if I were a betting man I would back Bielsa to win the PL next season.
  • You are joking Jack , Bielsa world class coach , huge experience  all over the world ,
    Potter and Cooper are pups , he has been coaching since for about 30 to 40 years our only manager to come anywhere  his experience  is Guidolin  ,

    I can see Leeds doing ok , like Sheffield  Utd this season -they will surprise  a few , if they finish in the top 10 they will have done brilliantly  .
    Top 6 done , Leicester  , Wolves , Everton then take your pick for 10th
    barry
  • @malc As I said the one manager I wish we had recruited. His team next season will put the fear of God into the PL teams, sure they will lose a few but only 38 matches and less Cup matches, less likely to burn out.

    Keep an eye on them next season.
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