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Reality bites

Reality bites.

A clueless manager - clueless on the training ground, and clueless tactically - in the biggest game of our season serving up a performance that, not for the first time, would put even the worst of the Garry Monk, Bob Bradley and Paul Clement era to shame. 

The apologists and the dreamers will now batten down the hatches and tell you it was a magnificent achievement to even make the playoffs.

Don't listen to them. 

We had the highest paid player in the league, playing a tier below his true ability, who for all his faults can look into the mirror at the end of the season and say he did all he could. We had no less than 6 very talented Premier League Academy players on loan during the course of the season, several of whom were in high demand elsewhere. Brewster has been brilliant.

And yet still, Cooper has wasted it all, with his sorry brand of disorganised, ugly, shapeless tripe. We reached the playoffs in spite of this charlatan. 

Next season, when more cuts hit and he isn't afforded the same level of player to bail him out with moments of individual flair, we will be relegated. Mark my words.

29 July 2020. Mark my words.
moorlands
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Comments

  • edited July 29
    Here comes the Troll  in chief---right on cue.So predictable.
  • That's harsh, Gary. I'm as disappointed as you are but we have been firing on all cylinders for a few games - Brentford have been consistent most of the season. And they had far more strength on the bench than us.

    Cooper has more than proved that we are a great club for top tier teams to loan out talented young players and expect game time in an atmosphere of ambition and attractive football (even if he did leave it late to deliver the goods for Gallagher and Guehi in particular). I am sure we will not struggle to get them back, or their equivalents, next season, together with the gems Scott unearths.

    I am going to match your prediction with one of my own - next season we'll be in the mix for the automatic promotion slots.
    moorlandsgarythenotrashcougar
  • moorlands said:
    Here comes the Troll  in chief---right on cue.So predictable.

    That's the way it works Moorlands I'm afraid. 

    Last week people got the opportunity to come on here and tell me and others why we were "wrong" and they were "right".

    Tonight, I and others get to tell them why I think they are "wrong". Though, I stop short of saying I'm "right", because I'm not as arrogant as that. It's just my opinion. 

    This is a discussion forum where views and opinions are to be encouraged. Deal with it. Learn from Cadleigh - he's on a completely different page to me, but I respect that, and more importantly he does it without feeling the need to throw labels like "troll" around. More power to him. 
  • Cadleigh said:
    That's harsh, Gary. I'm as disappointed as you are but we have been firing on all cylinders for a few games - Brentford have been consistent most of the season. And they had far more strength on the bench than us.

    Cooper has more than proved that we are a great club for top tier teams to loan out talented young players and expect game time in an atmosphere of ambition and attractive football (even if he did leave it late to deliver the goods for Gallagher and Guehi in particular). I am sure we will not struggle to get them back, or their equivalents, next season, together with the gems Scott unearths.

    I am going to match your prediction with one of my own - next season we'll be in the mix for the automatic promotion slots.
    I always enjoy hearing from you Cadleigh, whether I agree with you or not, and tonight is no different. 

    I think it was around this time last year you put together a thread for a bit of fun where you compiled a list of pre season predictions - are you doing it again? And it would be quite fun to see how this season's panned out!   :+1:
    Cadleigh
  • Come on @garythenotrashcougar that is over the top. 
    Yes Cooper is not perfect and at times this season has been turgid but we have something to build upon.

    Guehi we have for another season I believe.
    Gallagher I think needs another season in  the Championship so why not at Swansea?
    Brewster not getting near the Liverpool team any time soon, so again why not another stint at Swansea?

    Cabango is promising
    Rodon may not have suitors just yet due to injury concerns
    Try and keep Naughton and Routledge.

    Ayew and Van der Hoorn I would also keep if possible add a couple of more players and if Cooper develops as a coach then why not playoffs again.
    moorlands
  • edited July 29
    Hi Gary,
    Surprised you feel offended , as you seem to feel  so justified and appear triumphant.

    Think about it ---perhaps it's not always what you say,but the way that you say it.
  • edited July 29
    moorlands said:
    Hi Gary,
    Surprised you feel offended as you feel so justified.

    Think about it ---perhaps it's not always what you say,but the way that you say it.

    Not offended at all Moorlands. 

    Just pointing out you seem incapable of constructing even basic counterarguments, instead preferring to resort to puerile name calling. 

    Which you're entitled to do of course.
  • @Chris_Sharman Come on you really think premier league clubs aren't already interested in taking Brewster on loan next season. He got 10 goals for us in this team. I hate to think how many more he would have got if he had better service against Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday and tonight for example. 

    Otherwise I agree with Guehi and Gallagher. Although when Byers is fit there's no way him and Gallagher can play in the same side. One of many genius selection choices by our manager this season.
    SussexJackgarythenotrashcougar
  • moorlands said:
    Hi Gary,
    Surprised you feel offended as you feel so justified.

    Think about it ---perhaps it's not always what you say,but the way that you say it.

    Not offended at all Moorlands. 

    Just pointing out you seem incapable of constructing even basic counterarguments, instead preferring to resort to puerile name calling. 

    Which you're entitled to do of course.
    Gary, I think perhaps  you protest too much at times.The last word isn't always a necessity however good it makes us feel.
  • Have to say maybe us making the play offs at the last minute expectations were raised. Not me. I said and predicted at the start of the season wed make the play offs. I do feel deflated however. Sunday I thought we restricted Brentford to very few if any clear cut chances. Tonight that wasn't the case. Should we have brought Naughts straight in? Was VDH fit? At the end of the day, we've gone out in the play offs so another season of the Championship is in front of us. Scott now gets to earn his wage and bring us in some quality with Coopers blessing I'm sure. We can't rely on loans from the Prem next season. 
  • @Chris_Sharman

    Bristol City I meant sorry not Sheff Wednesday.
  • Its been a weird old season. Im always one that tries to give managers and players a fair shake. Because at the end of the day,who the hell am I to criticise.
    The inconsistencies this season have been crazy though. Prior to lock down I'd run out of patience with cooper, something that goes against my nature. Now at the end of the season, despite being so close to a return to the Premier league, it just doesn't sit well that cooper has done a good job. However I think he should be given another season to prove his own worth. I genuinely dont know what to expect for next season, to stay up would be a great result i think. Though I do hope that the infighting reduces slightly next season. Its just so poisonous and makes this forum really unpleasant at times. I know everyone loves to be right and in sport its a lot easier to be negative as there can only be one winner, but let's remember we all love this club x
    JackaremeSeaJackBobmoorlands
  • @Jack_14_Army ; I don't disagree that premier league clubs will be interested in Brewster, just think his development is better being first choice at Swansea that in rotation in the premier league.
  • @Chris_Sharman ; I know I want him back here too and logically speaking your absolutely right.

    But from the point of view of Liverpool & Jurgen Klopp he's far exceeded expectations in his loan with us and if he's got any chance of breaking into the Liverpool side in the future then they will want him to take a step up and go on loan to a Premier League club next season instead. Even if it's the wrong decision that's how they will see it.

    We'll see though. As much as Ayew has put in the effort this season, financially he needs to go or this club will suffer further. Only problem is unless clubs come in for him, we'll have no choice but to use him, loaning him is pointless.
  • Reality bites.

    A clueless manager - clueless on the training ground, and clueless tactically - in the biggest game of our season serving up a performance that, not for the first time, would put even the worst of the Garry Monk, Bob Bradley and Paul Clement era to shame. 

    The apologists and the dreamers will now batten down the hatches and tell you it was a magnificent achievement to even make the playoffs.

    Don't listen to them. 

    We had the highest paid player in the league, playing a tier below his true ability, who for all his faults can look into the mirror at the end of the season and say he did all he could. We had no less than 6 very talented Premier League Academy players on loan during the course of the season, several of whom were in high demand elsewhere. Brewster has been brilliant.

    And yet still, Cooper has wasted it all, with his sorry brand of disorganised, ugly, shapeless tripe. We reached the playoffs in spite of this charlatan. 

    Next season, when more cuts hit and he isn't afforded the same level of player to bail him out with moments of individual flair, we will be relegated. Mark my words.

    29 July 2020. Mark my words.
    The modern style of living from an old fart's perspective like myself appears to be that more and more people are demanding things now rather than having the patience to wait for tomorrow. As such, and I have stated so many times I have always been prepared to give it time for any player let alone head coach to give my opinion. From an armchair perspective, rather than being present at a game, I find it becomes even harder to make judgement and a criticism I once gave to Cooper certainly backfired last night and that was the performance of Gallagher when he was switched to play alongside Grimes at half-time. On the training ground Cooper identified that Gallagher could play that position and as such played him there. It didn't come off earlier in the season but last night he was terrific.

    Is Cooper a clone of Monk, Bradley and Clement. You made your own judgement but the true test would be if either of the above had a group of seasoned pros, young academy graduates or talented loan players from other clubs to work with when very little finance was available to sign players. A difficult decision and a fact that didn't come in to the equation when either of the above were managers of the Swans. But for me it was at last turning to a different system of play that all of a sudden made Jack Bidwell look a useful member of the team. Mark(London) felt that it was injuries that persuaded SC to change the system and if that was the case then we can look forward to see our team playing the same system next season, or will that inherent stubborness witnessed in so many matches pre-Covid rear its ugly head once again.

    As we have witnessed for many months / matches through the season, SC's inexperience at club level and inability to be flexible in team selection and systems was plain to see but I continue to wonder if that patience comment of mine can be misconstrued for players' mistakes at critical stages of a game. Last night was such an example. Defenders being caught square and not being tight can not be attributed to the coach on the touchline.

    I would imagine that a lot of head coaches / managers in the PL would be very interested in allowing some of their up and coming young professionals to come to Swansea on loan next season and work under Cooper knowing full well they will get their opportunity to play rather than sit on the bench and as such, apart from Guehi(hopefully his loan deal will see him back), the likes of Brewster, Gallagher etc. will no doubt be replaced by other very good young professionals. Until the time comes when finances dictate an affordability to sign players permanently, this is the road we have to tread.

    As for next season, financially, it is vital to offload Ayew and what contracts are on offer to senior professionals like Routledge and Naughton are all decisions that will come under the same umbrella of financial restraints, but at this moment in time I can't accept your vision of relegation next season until I can see who Andy Scott, a person as equally important to the club as our head coach, will suggest we offer contracts to.
    CadleighmoorlandsJackaremeSeaJack
  • well said Colin , now is the time when the chairman, and Andy Scott will show their worth and see what the owners do (or dont)
  • We have a manager who has shown he can operate at this level and is still adapting. Despite the moans and groans of a clueless minority he has outdone what was expected of him and also what Potter did last year. I appreciate all clubs have the doom and gloom merchants and these individuals will never find the positives in anything. That’s for them and is reflective of their own personality. The majority of fans of my club however clearly see this is never going to be overnight... we are operating at a level where we can’t sign finished article players or coaches, we can however afford exciting talent with a place to develop and excite. Great season and excited for what is to come STID 
    Colin_swansea
  • Reality bites.

    A clueless manager - clueless on the training ground, and clueless tactically - in the biggest game of our season serving up a performance that, not for the first time, would put even the worst of the Garry Monk, Bob Bradley and Paul Clement era to shame. 

    The apologists and the dreamers will now batten down the hatches and tell you it was a magnificent achievement to even make the playoffs.

    Don't listen to them. 

    We had the highest paid player in the league, playing a tier below his true ability, who for all his faults can look into the mirror at the end of the season and say he did all he could. We had no less than 6 very talented Premier League Academy players on loan during the course of the season, several of whom were in high demand elsewhere. Brewster has been brilliant.

    And yet still, Cooper has wasted it all, with his sorry brand of disorganised, ugly, shapeless tripe. We reached the playoffs in spite of this charlatan. 

    Next season, when more cuts hit and he isn't afforded the same level of player to bail him out with moments of individual flair, we will be relegated. Mark my words.

    29 July 2020. Mark my words.
    The modern style of living from an old fart's perspective like myself appears to be that more and more people are demanding things now rather than having the patience to wait for tomorrow. As such, and I have stated so many times I have always been prepared to give it time for any player let alone head coach to give my opinion. From an armchair perspective, rather than being present at a game, I find it becomes even harder to make judgement and a criticism I once gave to Cooper certainly backfired last night and that was the performance of Gallagher when he was switched to play alongside Grimes at half-time. On the training ground Cooper identified that Gallagher could play that position and as such played him there. It didn't come off earlier in the season but last night he was terrific.

    Is Cooper a clone of Monk, Bradley and Clement. You made your own judgement but the true test would be if either of the above had a group of seasoned pros, young academy graduates or talented loan players from other clubs to work with when very little finance was available to sign players. A difficult decision and a fact that didn't come in to the equation when either of the above were managers of the Swans. But for me it was at last turning to a different system of play that all of a sudden made Jack Bidwell look a useful member of the team. Mark(London) felt that it was injuries that persuaded SC to change the system and if that was the case then we can look forward to see our team playing the same system next season, or will that inherent stubborness witnessed in so many matches pre-Covid rear its ugly head once again.

    As we have witnessed for many months / matches through the season, SC's inexperience at club level and inability to be flexible in team selection and systems was plain to see but I continue to wonder if that patience comment of mine can be misconstrued for players' mistakes at critical stages of a game. Last night was such an example. Defenders being caught square and not being tight can not be attributed to the coach on the touchline.

    I would imagine that a lot of head coaches / managers in the PL would be very interested in allowing some of their up and coming young professionals to come to Swansea on loan next season and work under Cooper knowing full well they will get their opportunity to play rather than sit on the bench and as such, apart from Guehi(hopefully his loan deal will see him back), the likes of Brewster, Gallagher etc. will no doubt be replaced by other very good young professionals. Until the time comes when finances dictate an affordability to sign players permanently, this is the road we have to tread.

    As for next season, financially, it is vital to offload Ayew and what contracts are on offer to senior professionals like Routledge and Naughton are all decisions that will come under the same umbrella of financial restraints, but at this moment in time I can't accept your vision of relegation next season until I can see who Andy Scott, a person as equally important to the club as our head coach, will suggest we offer contracts to.

    Thanks for the reply Colin.

    As always, you provide a rounded and well reasoned case that, much like @Cadleigh and @Chris_Sharman above too, can provide an alternative view to mine without resorting to personal abuse or childish sniping. 

    Several posters on this forum would do well to read those posts, and learn from them on how to do it properly, and in the right manner.

     :+1: 
    Cadleigh
  • Reality bites.

    A clueless manager - clueless on the training ground, and clueless tactically - in the biggest game of our season serving up a performance that, not for the first time, would put even the worst of the Garry Monk, Bob Bradley and Paul Clement era to shame. 

    The apologists and the dreamers will now batten down the hatches and tell you it was a magnificent achievement to even make the playoffs.

    Don't listen to them. 

    We had the highest paid player in the league, playing a tier below his true ability, who for all his faults can look into the mirror at the end of the season and say he did all he could. We had no less than 6 very talented Premier League Academy players on loan during the course of the season, several of whom were in high demand elsewhere. Brewster has been brilliant.

    And yet still, Cooper has wasted it all, with his sorry brand of disorganised, ugly, shapeless tripe. We reached the playoffs in spite of this charlatan. 

    Next season, when more cuts hit and he isn't afforded the same level of player to bail him out with moments of individual flair, we will be relegated. Mark my words.

    29 July 2020. Mark my words.
    I have criticised Cooper at times but I think these past few weeks he is going to be a capable manager. Quite how you can describe losing 3-2 in the play offs to Brentford as clueless is beyond me.
  • I agree with Gary to a degree, yes we were lucky to get to the play offs but since January we have had better players than most in the league.

    His big chance was last night, we were 1 up going into the game. He changed a winning team and dropped a CH and put a full back there, I know it was done before but only when there was no choice.

    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do)
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench.
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but dont be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    Ayew will go for whatever they can get

    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience. Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players 
  • Phillip said:
    I agree with Gary to a degree, yes we were lucky to get to the play offs but since January we have had better players than most in the league.

    His big chance was last night, we were 1 up going into the game. He changed a winning team and dropped a CH and put a full back there, I know it was done before but only when there was no choice.

    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do)
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench.
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but dont be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    Ayew will go for whatever they can get

    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience. Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players 
    Normally i'd have to agree with most of what you are saying but I think the next transfer window will be a bit unusual in the sense that most clubs are not going to have the same money to throw around as previous seasons if we are to believe everything we are told. If clubs are struggling now as we are told, how bad is it going to get if the season starts without fans at the grounds. Apart from the large clubs with money backers the chain effect through the leagues will have some effect at the top, even the top teams have to unload players to bring new in, if nobody can afford to buy them what happens. I think there will be a glut of free agents this year and they won't be offered big payments to sign on as the money won't be there, same way some think Routs will sign for a vastly reduced wage, we still need some experience in the team or we will struggle next season.
  • Charlie10 said:
    Reality bites.

    A clueless manager - clueless on the training ground, and clueless tactically - in the biggest game of our season serving up a performance that, not for the first time, would put even the worst of the Garry Monk, Bob Bradley and Paul Clement era to shame. 

    The apologists and the dreamers will now batten down the hatches and tell you it was a magnificent achievement to even make the playoffs.

    Don't listen to them. 

    We had the highest paid player in the league, playing a tier below his true ability, who for all his faults can look into the mirror at the end of the season and say he did all he could. We had no less than 6 very talented Premier League Academy players on loan during the course of the season, several of whom were in high demand elsewhere. Brewster has been brilliant.

    And yet still, Cooper has wasted it all, with his sorry brand of disorganised, ugly, shapeless tripe. We reached the playoffs in spite of this charlatan. 

    Next season, when more cuts hit and he isn't afforded the same level of player to bail him out with moments of individual flair, we will be relegated. Mark my words.

    29 July 2020. Mark my words.
    I have criticised Cooper at times but I think these past few weeks he is going to be a capable manager. Quite how you can describe losing 3-2 in the play offs to Brentford as clueless is beyond me.

    Hi Charlie,

    To be clear - my assessment is based on 48 games, not just the two legs v Brentford where yes, at times, we played quite well, such as the last half an hour in the first leg, and the opening and closing 10 minutes last night.

    Many people will look at the first 5 games and last 9 of the regular season and feel there were signs of progress there - that's fair enough.

    But I think it's far more likely that what we saw in the longer spell between games 6 and 37 was a truer reflection of what we might expect to see next season.
  • Give sc a summer transfer window see who he brings in I thought we were a decent mid table young championship team that was going to get better and nothing I’ve seen has changed my mind.with the right recruits brought in this summer all getting a good preseason I don’t see why we cannot have another push for the play offs next season 
  • Just to pick up on GTNTC and his provocatively titled thread..
    Many will have seen that for large chunks of the season I was totally losing my mind with the direction that we were headed - for a lot of the reasons that gary highlighted.
    We were becoming a team happy to be out of possession, well organized and compact, only capable of being dangerous on the counter attack, and totally incapable of changing either personnel or players "in game". For me up to half time in the Sheff Weds game I saw nothing to like about the direction we were headed other than there was a togetherness in the squad, our set piece defending was improved and there were some good individual moments. The trajectory was League One and I saw no effort to change the identity or provide even a semblance of entertainment value.
    The stats backed up my observations - with very poor possession stats, pass completion stats (Swans DNA), chances created, goals scored etc.
    I guess we will never know what forced the changes (inspiration, necessity due to injuries, desperation, or a combination of the above), but what we saw from the Sheffield Weds game onwards was a sea change in most of the above.
    * We assumed an identity  - not our normal shape, but with the 3 at the back it became clear that we had a tactical plan.
    * By advancing wing backs we got more bodies into the final third and started, crucially, to play with some width and stretching the opposition.
    * With the new shape we got Ayew, Brewster and Gallagher more involved - and they were able to impact games.
    * Hallelujah (from the low point of Luton at home) Cooper started to introduce substitutes and at least try to change games. Sometimes it worked (Wayne v Reading) sometimes it didn't (Dhanda v Brentford) - but I could see the thinking, and welcomed the pro active approach.
    * The change in formation was a new lease of life for several players - notably Roberts, Guehi, Bidwell and Fulton, but others also looked more comfortable - Grimes, Brewster etc.

    There was no shame in losing to that Brentford team over the 2 legs. If I was a premier league club I would pay huge money for the keeper, Benrhama and especially Watkins - by championship standards these are superstars. Their rebuild is at least 2-3 yers ahead of us and we did well to compete.
    Defensive mistakes cost us, but on the whole I think Cooper set us up well over the 2 legs and rolled the dice with some substitutions that were positive attempts to influence the games.
    in defeat we saw a Swans team with 57% possession away from home - which is much more like the club I love.
    Given that we finished the season so positively we have to support Cooper and team to reshape the squad and launch a campaign for next season. Having a recognizable shape and tactical approach should make recruitment easier.
    If Cooper continues with the positive approach he will have my support - but I am still scared that he will revert to a cautious plan that nearly destroyed our season.
    Onwards and upwards - disappointed but very proud of the efforts post COVID - I don't think we could expect much more from the group as they find their feet.
    JackRavenmoorlandsColin_swansea
  • @Jackareme That's spot on
  • Some remarks to your comments

    Phillip,
    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)

    In recent games has seen Hoorn play but not full recovered from injury and Cabango has been nursing a groin strain. Or, perhaps SC deep down was disappointed in how the 2 goals were conceded and there was no injury problem.

    Phillip,
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do) apart from Naughton who else on the bench could play that role while Gallagher emerged at end of game as our best player over that half

    Dhanda came on at half-time replacing Fulton, and to keep the same shape either Dhanda or Gallagher had to play alongside Grimes. Gallagher had to do it as Dhanda does not have that defensive nous in his locker. Gallagher might have been missed further forward but did SC have any other choice if he wanted to keep the same formation? Gallagher was Man of the match for me, re-second half performance.

    Phillip,
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench. So was Celina the worst choice from Kalulu, Dyer, Garrick or Cullen?

    Phillip,
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.

    Don’t you think the game still had to be kept tight rather than go all cavalier at Brentford like what happened at Reading. Brentford are a far, far better team than Reading and they would have picked us off.

    Phillip,
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    1. When a team is potentially defending a counter attack the last thing 2 defenders have to do is ensure they are not caught square in a potential counter threat. They didn't-1st goal
    2. Defending a cross into the box defenders need to be touch tight rather than stand off their opponent. Result-2nd and 3rd goal

    Phillip,
    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    Of those four experienced players I would offer deals, no doubt a drop in salary, to Routledge and Naughton.
    I believe Hoorn was playing the out of contract card all season and he had no intention of signing, especially when one considers that 12 months ago the club took up an option to give him a contract, something Hoorn appeared loathe to do. No loss to be honest he thinks he is a better player than what he actually is.

    Phillip,
    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but don't be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.

    Every player has a price on his head and to be fair to Birch he pulled in top dollar for James and Oli and if there is interest in any of our players I am confident we will get good fees for them.

    Phillip,
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    The same applies to them

    Phillip,
    Ayew will go for whatever they can get.

    Absolute tosh where is your proof of that. If he goes, even if we don’t get top market price we will be saving a huge percentage of the monthly wage bill.

    Phillip,
    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience.

    Woodman, or equivalent will be brought in with Benda as understudy.

    Phillip,
    Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players.

    Wait and see I think and don't pre-empt situations. Quality loans were brought in this season, hopefully the same will apply and another hopeful will see Andy Scott unveil some nuggets as he did some years back when he recruited left back Henry from Walsall. What will be revealed from what are suggested that there will be financial cutbacks is the quality of player recruited. Wait and see for me.
     
    An alternative opinion Phillip from what I saw of the game and a look into my crystal ball!!




    Steve
  • Some remarks to your comments

    Phillip,
    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)

    In recent games has seen Hoorn play but not full recovered from injury and Cabango has been nursing a groin strain. Or, perhaps SC deep down was disappointed in how the 2 goals were conceded and there was no injury problem.

    Phillip,
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do) apart from Naughton who else on the bench could play that role while Gallagher emerged at end of game as our best player over that half

    Dhanda came on at half-time replacing Fulton, and to keep the same shape either Dhanda or Gallagher had to play alongside Grimes. Gallagher had to do it as Dhanda does not have that defensive nous in his locker. Gallagher might have been missed further forward but did SC have any other choice if he wanted to keep the same formation? Gallagher was Man of the match for me, re-second half performance.

    Phillip,
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench. So was Celina the worst choice from Kalulu, Dyer, Garrick or Cullen?

    Phillip,
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.

    Don’t you think the game still had to be kept tight rather than go all cavalier at Brentford like what happened at Reading. Brentford are a far, far better team than Reading and they would have picked us off.

    Phillip,
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    1. When a team is potentially defending a counter attack the last thing 2 defenders have to do is ensure they are not caught square in a potential counter threat. They didn't-1st goal
    2. Defending a cross into the box defenders need to be touch tight rather than stand off their opponent. Result-2nd and 3rd goal

    Phillip,
    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    Of those four experienced players I would offer deals, no doubt a drop in salary, to Routledge and Naughton.
    I believe Hoorn was playing the out of contract card all season and he had no intention of signing, especially when one considers that 12 months ago the club took up an option to give him a contract, something Hoorn appeared loathe to do. No loss to be honest he thinks he is a better player than what he actually is.

    Phillip,
    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but don't be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.

    Every player has a price on his head and to be fair to Birch he pulled in top dollar for James and Oli and if there is interest in any of our players I am confident we will get good fees for them.

    Phillip,
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    The same applies to them

    Phillip,
    Ayew will go for whatever they can get.

    Absolute tosh where is your proof of that. If he goes, even if we don’t get top market price we will be saving a huge percentage of the monthly wage bill.

    Phillip,
    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience.

    Woodman, or equivalent will be brought in with Benda as understudy.

    Phillip,
    Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players.

    Wait and see I think and don't pre-empt situations. Quality loans were brought in this season, hopefully the same will apply and another hopeful will see Andy Scott unveil some nuggets as he did some years back when he recruited left back Henry from Walsall. What will be revealed from what are suggested that there will be financial cutbacks is the quality of player recruited. Wait and see for me.
     
    An alternative opinion Phillip from what I saw of the game and a look into my crystal ball!!




    Are you a football fan or looking after the finances, I'm sure the Yanks can do that fine.
    You state they needed to keep it tight unlike the Bristol game.
    FFS it was 77 minutes until Celina came on and we needed 2 goals just to get extra time, we got one and he still didn't bring on another forward.
    If it wasn't shit or bust nothing was.
    The selling or losing of players wouldn't have been a problem that's how important last night was, we had a lead and blew it.
    Speculation of who comes and who goes is as you say speculation.
    I can assure you, if offers come in for any, they are gone.
    Will the football club be financially sound, possibly or their bank account will be.
    Will they buy anyone before selling No chance, a well run investor will buy first at low prices and sell high.
    These lot sell high and then get inferior players at inflated prices after.
    We have had 2 of the best loans I can remember, will we get more, I hope so

  • Phillip said:
    Some remarks to your comments

    Phillip,
    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)

    In recent games has seen Hoorn play but not full recovered from injury and Cabango has been nursing a groin strain. Or, perhaps SC deep down was disappointed in how the 2 goals were conceded and there was no injury problem.

    Phillip,
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do) apart from Naughton who else on the bench could play that role while Gallagher emerged at end of game as our best player over that half

    Dhanda came on at half-time replacing Fulton, and to keep the same shape either Dhanda or Gallagher had to play alongside Grimes. Gallagher had to do it as Dhanda does not have that defensive nous in his locker. Gallagher might have been missed further forward but did SC have any other choice if he wanted to keep the same formation? Gallagher was Man of the match for me, re-second half performance.

    Phillip,
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench. So was Celina the worst choice from Kalulu, Dyer, Garrick or Cullen?

    Phillip,
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.

    Don’t you think the game still had to be kept tight rather than go all cavalier at Brentford like what happened at Reading. Brentford are a far, far better team than Reading and they would have picked us off.

    Phillip,
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    1. When a team is potentially defending a counter attack the last thing 2 defenders have to do is ensure they are not caught square in a potential counter threat. They didn't-1st goal
    2. Defending a cross into the box defenders need to be touch tight rather than stand off their opponent. Result-2nd and 3rd goal

    Phillip,
    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    Of those four experienced players I would offer deals, no doubt a drop in salary, to Routledge and Naughton.
    I believe Hoorn was playing the out of contract card all season and he had no intention of signing, especially when one considers that 12 months ago the club took up an option to give him a contract, something Hoorn appeared loathe to do. No loss to be honest he thinks he is a better player than what he actually is.

    Phillip,
    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but don't be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.

    Every player has a price on his head and to be fair to Birch he pulled in top dollar for James and Oli and if there is interest in any of our players I am confident we will get good fees for them.

    Phillip,
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    The same applies to them

    Phillip,
    Ayew will go for whatever they can get.

    Absolute tosh where is your proof of that. If he goes, even if we don’t get top market price we will be saving a huge percentage of the monthly wage bill.

    Phillip,
    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience.

    Woodman, or equivalent will be brought in with Benda as understudy.

    Phillip,
    Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players.

    Wait and see I think and don't pre-empt situations. Quality loans were brought in this season, hopefully the same will apply and another hopeful will see Andy Scott unveil some nuggets as he did some years back when he recruited left back Henry from Walsall. What will be revealed from what are suggested that there will be financial cutbacks is the quality of player recruited. Wait and see for me.
     
    An alternative opinion Phillip from what I saw of the game and a look into my crystal ball!!




    Are you a football fan or looking after the finances, I'm sure the Yanks can do that fine.
    You state they needed to keep it tight unlike the Bristol game.
    FFS it was 77 minutes until Celina came on and we needed 2 goals just to get extra time, we got one and he still didn't bring on another forward.
    If it wasn't shit or bust nothing was.
    The selling or losing of players wouldn't have been a problem that's how important last night was, we had a lead and blew it.
    Speculation of who comes and who goes is as you say speculation.
    I can assure you, if offers come in for any, they are gone.
    Will the football club be financially sound, possibly or their bank account will be.
    Will they buy anyone before selling No chance, a well run investor will buy first at low prices and sell high.
    These lot sell high and then get inferior players at inflated prices after.
    We have had 2 of the best loans I can remember, will we get more, I hope so

    Phillip,
    obviously I am a football fan but I fully appreciate the financial parameters Birch is working on and realize fully why those parameters could / will be reduced.

    Celina on at 77, Brewster scored on 78, a good substitution, we were on top and had forward momentum and on another day could have scored the third goal and more to the point, the game was leading to the closing stages and pressure on the Brentford defence resulted in mistakes.

    As far as most fans are concerned the club's finances are the unknown and the only indication we will have, as I have mentioned earlier, the quality of the players recruited.
  • Phillip said:
    Some remarks to your comments

    Phillip,
    It went wrong so he then takes a CH off and brings another on ( Pointless)

    In recent games has seen Hoorn play but not full recovered from injury and Cabango has been nursing a groin strain. Or, perhaps SC deep down was disappointed in how the 2 goals were conceded and there was no injury problem.

    Phillip,
    he takes a holding midfielder off and puts an attacking on eon ( Positive move0 
    But then puts a playmaking midfielder (Gallagher) in a deep holding role ( WTF is that going to do) apart from Naughton who else on the bench could play that role while Gallagher emerged at end of game as our best player over that half

    Dhanda came on at half-time replacing Fulton, and to keep the same shape either Dhanda or Gallagher had to play alongside Grimes. Gallagher had to do it as Dhanda does not have that defensive nous in his locker. Gallagher might have been missed further forward but did SC have any other choice if he wanted to keep the same formation? Gallagher was Man of the match for me, re-second half performance.

    Phillip,
    He then waits to bring on a playmaker or attacker (Celina) until the 76th Minute ( Far to late)
    There were other attackers waiting on the bench. So was Celina the worst choice from Kalulu, Dyer, Garrick or Cullen?

    Phillip,
    Against Bristol he had no choice took off defenders and attacked ( Shit or bust)
    We were in the same position or worse we needed 2 goals after 46 minutes Cooper wasted those minutes by playing the same way. It was one of the worst decisions of the season.

    Don’t you think the game still had to be kept tight rather than go all cavalier at Brentford like what happened at Reading. Brentford are a far, far better team than Reading and they would have picked us off.

    Phillip,
    The players were not at fault, the system was, playing FB as CH when you dont have to, switching a class midfielder to holding roles are shocking decisions.

    1. When a team is potentially defending a counter attack the last thing 2 defenders have to do is ensure they are not caught square in a potential counter threat. They didn't-1st goal
    2. Defending a cross into the box defenders need to be touch tight rather than stand off their opponent. Result-2nd and 3rd goal

    Phillip,
    Gary is correct, we will lose the loan players, might keep 1.
    VDH, Naughton, Routledge and Dyer are out of contract and will be expected to either sign for pittance or leave, VDH will go for definite. 

    Of those four experienced players I would offer deals, no doubt a drop in salary, to Routledge and Naughton.
    I believe Hoorn was playing the out of contract card all season and he had no intention of signing, especially when one considers that 12 months ago the club took up an option to give him a contract, something Hoorn appeared loathe to do. No loss to be honest he thinks he is a better player than what he actually is.

    Phillip,
    With all the interest in Rodon he will probably go but don't be surprised if Cabango sees even more interest.

    Every player has a price on his head and to be fair to Birch he pulled in top dollar for James and Oli and if there is interest in any of our players I am confident we will get good fees for them.

    Phillip,
    Celina and Roberts will have offers and if over 5M they will be gone.

    The same applies to them

    Phillip,
    Ayew will go for whatever they can get.

    Absolute tosh where is your proof of that. If he goes, even if we don’t get top market price we will be saving a huge percentage of the monthly wage bill.

    Phillip,
    So what's left for definite. 1 Goalkeeper without regular championship experience.

    Woodman, or equivalent will be brought in with Benda as understudy.

    Phillip,
    Byers, Fulton, Grimes, with experience, Cullen, Garrick, Dhanda.
    So unless we get class loans straight away Gary is right we will go down.
    Last night was more important than some think, promotion was our only guarantee of keeping tidy players.

    Wait and see I think and don't pre-empt situations. Quality loans were brought in this season, hopefully the same will apply and another hopeful will see Andy Scott unveil some nuggets as he did some years back when he recruited left back Henry from Walsall. What will be revealed from what are suggested that there will be financial cutbacks is the quality of player recruited. Wait and see for me.
     
    An alternative opinion Phillip from what I saw of the game and a look into my crystal ball!!




    Are you a football fan or looking after the finances, I'm sure the Yanks can do that fine.
    You state they needed to keep it tight unlike the Bristol game.
    FFS it was 77 minutes until Celina came on and we needed 2 goals just to get extra time, we got one and he still didn't bring on another forward.
    If it wasn't shit or bust nothing was.
    The selling or losing of players wouldn't have been a problem that's how important last night was, we had a lead and blew it.
    Speculation of who comes and who goes is as you say speculation.
    I can assure you, if offers come in for any, they are gone.
    Will the football club be financially sound, possibly or their bank account will be.
    Will they buy anyone before selling No chance, a well run investor will buy first at low prices and sell high.
    These lot sell high and then get inferior players at inflated prices after.
    We have had 2 of the best loans I can remember, will we get more, I hope so

    Phillip,
    obviously I am a football fan but I fully appreciate the financial parameters Birch is working on and realize fully why those parameters could / will be reduced.

    Celina on at 77, Brewster scored on 78, a good substitution, we were on top and had forward momentum and on another day could have scored the third goal and more to the point, the game was leading to the closing stages and pressure on the Brentford defence resulted in mistakes.

    As far as most fans are concerned the club's finances are the unknown and the only indication we will have, as I have mentioned earlier, the quality of the players recruited.
    That's the point Celina on 77 we score 78, why not after going 3 down after 46 minutes didn't we bring him on then.
    Surely that is what should have happened and possibly another sub like a winger later on.
    The last 13 minutes we put them under it could have been 44 minutes where there is real time to make a difference.
    losing 3/2 on aggregate doesn't look bad statistically but for 78 minutes we didn't provide enough threat   
  • Brentford created 2 goal scoring chances in the last 5 mins , Benrahma  missed the target twice   ,
    Brentford were the better team  

    Will be a cracking final , Brentford  to beat Fulham 
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