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Scotland v Wales rugby

Great win considering 9 first team players out, and being 17-3 down in the game.

A Fabulous game of test match rugby, against a resurgent Scottish team, who had just beaten Ingerland

Scotland had a man sent off, but what a find Wales have discovered in winger Louis Rees-Zammit.

Pace to burn, and what composure for his kick ahead when at full tilt

Well done Wales !! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

Comments

  • edited February 13

    Sad to say the coach has to go. All he has achieved is taking us from a team with the best defence in the 6 nations to the worst. perhaps he should have a discussion with SC for some tips.

    All we have demonstrated so far is an ability to beat teams of 14 players and then only just about. Once we come up against a team that manages to keep 15 players on the pitch we will lose, big time.

  • I think you are being a bit harsh there. In both games Wales has been written off by the media, pundits & so called experts. Losing players & conceding penalties due to ill discipline is a problem that Wales has suffered from more than most home nations over the years, yet we have fared pretty well in the 6 nations despite that. The sendings off show at last that the game is taking concussion seriously & were the correct decisions. The primary thing that will be remembered will be the result, so lets give credit to an injury ravaged squad, talked down by the experts on BBC & ITV & be proud that we won.

    We will of course be written off for our games versus England & France still to come, Wales will always be underdogs in the sporting world just like the Swans are in the Championship & PL. Why try talking down the wins achieved against all the odds ? Only time will tell if we will 'lose big time' when up against 15 players, but writing us off does a big discredit to the players & team for their efforts against the odds & so called sport experts

  • edited February 16

    @EagleEye

    When Gatland was coach, we weren't written off for any match, were were winning Championships and Grand Slams and I dont see us normally as underdogs against England or France, we might lose but as often if not more so we would win.

    My comments say nothing about the players as they are essentially the same players as when we were beating all the other teams. We have injuries, but so do all teams, and the newer palyers are good enough.

    The issue is the coach Pivac, and the lack of a game plan.

    When he started instead of building on what we had, he has just changed what we do without regard for its quality.

    For example we had the best defensive coach in the world, and Pivac didnt keep him, as he wanted his own man, Byron Hayward, that unrenowned defensive coach and in our first season we went from conceding rarely a try in a match to averaging just under 30 points a match. Not surprisingly he has now gone

    To make it worse Shaun Edwards goes to France and lo and beyond they look like the best defensive team in the six nations, that's the French, that's how good Shaun Edwards is.

    We now have Gethin Jenkins as the new defensive coach and we have improved in defence, however whilst I rate Gethin Jenkins he is relatively inexperienced as a defensive coach, so can't expect him to be the finsihed article yet, hence neither will our defence.

    So back to my opening question. What is our gameplan, because I've watched every match and we dont seem to have one. That is unless you count getting an opposition player sent off so we only play against 14 players.

    So my issue is with the coach, he has taken a championship winning team with the best defence, into last season the 2nd worst team conceding about 30 points a match. I would defy anyone to say what our gameplan actually is.

    By the way our wins this season were not against the odds, they were against 14 players for 20 mins in the last match and most of the match against Ireland, and we only just managed to win them. That isnt winning against the odds.

    I'll say it now whilst we have this coach we will be poor and as long as the opposition keep 15 players on the pitch, we will lose against all the first class teams and some will be embarassing.

    We might beat Italy again this season, but we will need to be careful as they are improving and we are heading in the opposite direction.

  • @JackRaven a bit harsh summing up there Jack

    Go back to when Gatland took over we had lost to Fiji the world cup and humiliated .

    In the 6 nations we played England away , we were the underdog had not beaten them at Twickenham for 20 years , we also struggled in Paris against the French

    When Gatland was made coach he brought along shaun Edwards he had worked with him at Wasps , who with Wales gained the reputation as the best defence coach in the World .

    Pivac in his second season in my opinion needs time to build his team and playing style in the way he wants , from what I remember Edwards was looking for a new challenge , taking the French job looks perfect for him .

    Pivac did really well with the Scarlets , good to watch and reasonably successful , his game plan is running rugby and off loading , keep the ball on the park .

    Rugby is about discipline , we showed we had it Ireland and Scotland did not ,

    Not very supportive of our team then , always thinking the worse , not prepared to wait ,

    Professional sport is always about fine margins , go back to Gatland's first grand slam , luck was with us .

  • Wales cant afford to sack Pivac. The WRU had to go cap in hand to the Senedd for bail out pandemic cash to shore up the game.

    His big mistake was not to offer Edwards a 4 year contract, and make Byron Haywood Shaun's assistant. He was only offered a 2 year deal, and France were smart enough to jump on it.

    Haywood is now history, thankfully, and Gethin has turned the defence around.

    Now if they can get continuity of selection in the back row and backs they've a chance of finishing 2nd.

  • @Malc

    Not sure what your issue is other than you feel my assessment is harsh. It is harsh but entirely fair.

    So Gatland took over when we were really poor and made us great, whereas Pivac took over when we were great and has made us poor. Thats a bit like a football coach talking over a team like Man Utd when Champions and then taking them close to relegation.

    So we have a model Pivac is the David Moyes of Welsh Rugby. I wonder why I am harsh but fair!

    By the way no, Shaun Edwards would have signed for us but when it was clear the WRU, for whatever reason, werent going to offer him the contract he wanted for 4 years not two years, he agreed to sign for France. So you lose the Pep Guardiola of rugby defensive coaches because he wants to stay for 4 years rather than 2 years. I can see how that would be big problem. No-one would sign Pep to a 4 year contract when they only want him for 2 years!!!!!!!!!

    Supportive of the team, yes....... they deserve a better coach, always seeing the reality rather than pretending... unlike some posters, and agreed not prepared to wait when the coach has no game plan. On the plus side he is about 14-15 months through a contract with a break clause at 24 months.

    That's the only good news at the moment.

    Try seeing the world as it is not how you want it to be.

  • We are talking Rugby not football , you always want to bring the conversation back to your thinking

    I always believe in giving time to the coach , what have you against Pivac , did you think he did well at the Scarlets ,

    Could say the same about you .

    The game plan is running rugby , off loading and keeping the ball on the park , wants to evolve Warren ball .

  • edited February 16

    Yes we are talking rugby and yes I do bring the conversation back to what I am thinking because thats how you construct an argument.

    In order to evolve an approach it needs to become better, not worse. Its all very well giving the coach time but he has to demonstrate some area of improvement, there is none.

    I have nothing against Pivac, other than he has demonstrated he isnt good enough. I'd prefer it if he was, but he isnt. In many ways it was always going to be a poison chalice following Garland, but in the end it changes nothing.

    Our game isnt running rugby, we have no aspect of the game where we can dominate the opposition, that is the harsh truth.

  • There you go again , ' he has demonstrated he is not good enough ' that is your opinion , my opinion is give him a chance .

    We will see how he does .

    Gatland did very well , unfortunately Warren Ball doesn't bring you success at the World Cup , New Zealand , South Africa and Australia can counter that style .

  • I'll go back to what Gatland said, that the International game was a million miles from what Pivac would have experienced at club level - something Gats discovered himself.

    Also, Pivac is trying to move the gameplan on to something else. And that is not easy, when the team have been used to training and playing Gats-way for 12 years - a lot of those players are still in that squad.

    Pivac's big mistake, was not to have kept the continuity of Edwards. Not just his defensive know-how. but his experience as a 2nd-lieutenant would have been invaluable to Pivac, and the players.

    And as Edwards has shown with France, his defensive qualities can be combined with a more expansive game that Pivac wants to play.

    It was a major mistake. The good thing is, he has jettisoned Haywood who was out of his depth, and brought in someone who knows the Edwards way. And Gethin has always been one of the more cerebral players.

    And let's not forget that he has been hit by a lot of injuries, many key ones - even players coming back, like the Sheriff and AWJ have played no rugby for months. And a lack of crowds - the Red Army has always been a 16th player for the team.

    I'm not convinced by him. But he gets more time, just like I gave Cooper more time, before the first lockdown, when many were calling for his head.

  • @JackRaven

    You have obviously written off Pivac, I think it is too early & premature to write him off. He did a first class job leading the Scarlets to win the Pro14 playing an exciting brand of rugby. The squads at his disposal have been decimated by injuries from day one.

    I’m surprised that you can’t see what the game plan is. He clearly wants to play an offloading game & look to play a more dynamic, wider, more expansive game than Gatland. There were many, many critics of Gatland too with his one dimensional ‘Warrenball’ tactics, especially after defeats. Letting Shaun Edwards leave was a major cock up but was that even Pivac’s decision ?

    When I mentioned against the odds I was referring to us being underdogs according to the bookies & pundit opinions. If the opposition lose players due to ill discipline, attempting to physically harm our players through foul play then that’s too bad. Wales has been affected from many yellow cards in the past & negative penalty counts, it’s part of the game. To say we would have lost these games is just your view, we will never know. It’s the type of attitude that you would expect from players immediately after a game or biased pundits the same nationality as the losing side

    Your analogy about taking a top team to be relegation candidates is wide of the mark as margins are so tight in international rugby. Did you write Potter & Cooper off after so few games ? Pivac has already blooded many new players & we now know that there is some depth in the squad that we wouldn’t have had if he hadn’t experimented. The jury might be out but he has certainly not demonstrated that he is not up to the job ... yet. Gatland’s record is spread over 10 years, Pivac has had about 10 games

  • If he wants to use a football analogy then look no further than Cookie's record as Welsh Manager.

    He lost 7 out of his first 10. And lost 5 in a row, including a 6-1 hammering by Serbia.

  • @EagleEye @Mark_Jack_London

    Its fine, you have your opinions, which I disagree with.

    Time will tell and if you are right then we will perform well and at least be close against England.

    I will be very happy to be proven wrong and your assessment of Pivac be proven right.

    I've seen a lot of rugby in my time, and normally I can see what the coach is trying to achieve, even if its not working currently because it takes time for the players to adapt.

    There are prerequistes to play a successful offloading game, a key one is we need to dominate the collision area, which we did under Gatland which we arent doing at the moment, We need to earn the right to go wide by drawing in their defence, and also by moving the ball quickly from the base of the scrums and rucks, which we aren't doing and most of all we need to stop what is at the moment a very predictable and aimless kicking game.

    The vast majority of coaches end their careers in failure, its a by product of being in such a results-orientated profession. The very few who don't especially those who have enjoyed longevity are rightly revered.

    I personally dont like Alex Ferguson, from what I know of him, but he is clearly one. In rugby for Wales and the Lions there is Carwyn James, as a Lions coach Ian McGeechan and Warren Gatland is up there with that illustrious company.

    Criticising the previous coach, especially one of the best coaches in our history, won't make Pivac any better. the results will tell.

    You refer to writing off coaches.

    Well Potter came here and it was easy to see what he was trying to do and it worked. During the season there were ups and downs, and really poor fall off defensively from set pieces, but a creditable performance.

    SC had a great start to the season, a poor middle and a great finish. Whilst I dont always like the approach, you can see what he is trying to do and he isnt afraid to change, and improve on clear areas of weakness.

    This season its even clearer what he is trying to do and the team is performing (perhaps not always in the style I'd like). We may need to adapt for the remaining matches, but its going to be quite a ride.

    In International Rugby the season is shorter so the margin for error is less. The six nations, perhaps a tour and the Autumn internationals.

    And on that basis I havent seen any improvement except against teams of 14.

  • @JackRaven look forward to see your views on Wales and Wayne Pivac .

    Wales winners of the 6 nations .

    JackaremeMalaga
  • I thought we played very well against England, certainly better than I expected. Our defence was stronger and more agressive. We were better in the collisions and edged England there. Our Line out was far better and certainly achieved parity, as did scrums. As important, we were getting the ball away from the back of the breakdowns much quicker, which put us on the front foot, and not perennially kicking the ball to their back 3.

    I'm glad to see Pivac has been reading my comments on where we needed to improve!!! 🤣

    The scoreline did flatter us a little thanks to the knockon that wasnt a knock on plus the smart decision by Biggar to manage the ref and put in a lovely crossfield kick.

    Overall we deserved the win and England were the architects of their own downfall, with the amount of penalties they gave away.

    France, well I did enter the match with some trepidation and despite losing the match, in many ways I thought it was our best performance. Sadly not to be able to hold on right at the end against a very talented french side.

    So am I wrong about Pivac, yes I could be, he has brought in a defensive coach of quality and that has improved us, and we are starting to put right the other aspects of the game that we used to get right. So if this progress continues, I will be happy.

    I do still have lingering doubts, but he gets an 8/10 from me for the improvement during the 6 Nations.

    Malc
  • @JackRaven

    Thank you for the reply and honesty , I thought the team improved game by game .

    The tries we scored were top quality , took our chances against England , had the rub of the green and played well .

    Thought we were going to beat the French , for 68 mins couldn't see us losing the substitutions didn't help us plus the 2 yellow cards .

    There is tremendous talent in the squad a much stronger depth to it .

    Always better to judge when we have our world class players fit , new exciting players coming through .

  • Rees-Zamitt will be a star........ if he isnt already. I like the young scrum, Hardy, who looks a talent.

    On a sadder note, goodbye to John Dawes a giant of the game, we are all lessened by his death.

    StephenR
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