That moment when you knew the manager had lost the fans & / or the players.

Watching last night, I started casting my mind back to the times when it became clear (in my mind at least) that previous managers had reached their "sell by date" with fans, if not the players as well by that stage.

For me, the one that immediately sprung to mind (not least because of the locale, which made it more painful) was when Monk's Swansea side lost at Carrow Road. Just like last night, it wasn't the size of the defeat which rang alarm bells so much as the abject level of performance on both occasions. In fact, the similarities to yesterday were quite frightening in that they were both displays in which the players seemed to genuinely lack belief in what they were doing, both as individuals and a collective unit, with the manager seemingly unable to inspire any reaction of a positive nature from the sidelines.

The only thing which surprised me that time around was how long Monk stayed in his role afterwards, no doubt helped in the eyes of the chairman & board by his banked credit as a club stalwart and through the previous high league placement.

Surely Cooper doesn't have that level of support, does he? Or it is a question of the owners hanging on and hoping that Crystal Palace or A.N.Other offer us a pay-off lump sum to avoid the costs of a pay-off ourselves?

Be interested to know when you had those "light bulb" moments with previous incumbents, however long it was before they either jumped or were pushed.

Comments

  • We're in a completely different position as a club now to where we were when we sacked Monk, when we could afford to pull the trigger.

    The brutal truth is that we can't really afford, financially, to sack any manager in our current financial state. IMO if we'd had the dosh, Cooper would have gone at some point between September 2019 and January 2020. The 5-1 thrashing at West Brom was when he completely lost me. At that point it was 5 without a win, and it wouldn't have surprised me if they'd pulled the plug after that.

    With Laudrup, it was West Ham. Nuff said.

    With Monk it was when we lost to Stoke at home and barely putting up a fight that the alarm bells really started ringing with me, because we'd usually given them a schooling at home in previous seasons. It was abject.

    With Guidolin, it was no one thing, just a sense that he was never the right fit. Performances and results picking up under Curt when he was ill in hospital told its own story, I felt.

    With Clement it was when we lost at home to Brighton and barely had a shot. When Sanches passed the ball to the perimeter advertising a few weeks later, he was a dead man walking.

    With Carlos, he lost me when we went up to West Brom with them already down and in disarray, and played a 5-4-1, hardly troubling them apart from a late equaliser. He bottled it. Was crippled by fear, he had nothing beyond the initial bounce of the first 5 weeks.

    Colin_swanseaJackaremeSeaJack
  • Paul Clement for me is an interesting one.

    I remember the 1-0 defeat to Brighton. At the time and retrospectively thats when he should have been sacked. Instead he was given another seven games to sink us further into the shit.

    As for Steve Cooper, truth be told I've never really been won over by him. Nor will that likely ever change but as long as our form from the end of last season which carried over into this season was good and for a long time it was: then I stayed off his back because no matter how much I don't rate him when things are good its not always worth getting upset about things.

    However it seems the bubble has burst.

    For a whole year we managed to avoid consecutive defeats which was why we were so high up in the table this season as well as our once impeccable defensive record.

    But now we are currently on three defeats in a row and I now fear we will return to the Cooper team of last season before the suspension of football around the world because of Covid 19.

    SeaJack
  • There are refugees in this squad from a different era. Naughton from the Rodgers and Laudrup glory days and Naughton Grimes Fulton Roberts etc from the Potter times.

    So we have players who know what it is like to play for the Swans - and i mean play rather than wear the white shirt and scrap. What they must be thinking is anyones guess

    There is no longer any priority given to technically gifted players any more - and there is no criticism when players turn over possession or decline to make easy and high percentage passes.

    Pass and move has become pass and watch - as there is no realistic chance of getting the ball back when you move into space.

    We need to be clear about the need to keep the ball and use our substitutions to keep the energy levels required for pass and move football - stop me if ANY of this is too difficult for ven the most limited coach to grasp.

    YES it is important in the Championship to be able to defend well and compete physically - BUT this will not separate you from the pack.Cooper had 11 days with this squad and managed to make them worse - so are we

    (a) too tired

    (b) too out of practice due to the break in games

    (c) badly coached

    (d) not very good

    (e) a combination of the above

    A a starting point we need to have more players on the pitch who can create and score a goal. This must be a return to a back 4 and a general desire to dominate possession and territory.

    Bennett is a good defender but he MUST be stopped from hoofing the ball unless he is under pressure - Bidwell the same - as he is an even bigger offender. Grimes and Smith need to be coming deep for the ball to feet and there needs to be a rotation amongst our forwards that stretch the pitch wide and long.

    The undroppables need to be errr dropped - and this is Woodman Bidwell Grimes Lowe and especially Ayew - as these players offer nothing to the team when they are not fresh.

    We need two good defenders in the back 4 (take your pick of Guehi Bennet and Cabango)

    Naughton Roberts and Manning at full back (who can all play properly)

    Smith and Grimes screening the back 4 and starting our passing movements

    And then rotate the hell out of the remaining 4 jerseys to keep players hungry and fresh (right now Whittaker is the first name on the sheet) - but Hourihane, Dhanda, Routledge, Lowe, Ayew and Cullen (when fit) are all in for a shout of the 4 available shirts

    Your squad depth players are Fulton, Bidwell Woodman the spare full back the spare defender and the spare forwards from the above permutations.

    In short we are sliding out of the promotion race without so much as a whimper - time for Cooper to strap on a pair, trust his players, instruct them to play the Swansea way and TRY to win matches.

    ANOTHER RANT OVER - SORRY!!!!!

    FyldeJackSeaJack
  • If I took over tomorrow I would definitely switch to a back 4.

    Freddie is very good at saving pens, but I'd concur with those who think it's time for a rest.

    Tough call at CB but I like the feel of Guehi and Cabango together. There's pace and strength there.

    Bidwell? Not for me in a back 4. Not sold on Manning either. Naughton gets the nod. Solid. Reliable.

    Not a popular view, but Grimes would not be in my starting midfield in a 3 - he's a jack of all trades. I prefer the energy and industry of Smith and Fulton as my two at the base of my midfield. No place for Hourihane either I'm afraid, who contributes surprisingly little in open play. I'm asking those to do no more than keep it simple - win the ball back, prioritise keeping the bloody thing, and look to feed the three behind the main striker as much as possible.

    Yan plays as the advanced CM/AM. I know he has his drawbacks, but he's the only midfielder I have seen in this squad who can create something out of nothing, who can pick a pass. It's hardly a ringing endorsement but he's the only option we have right now for this important role. He has to play.

    I'm insistent that Ayew is not a striker, nor a winger. If he is, then he needs to be better in either position. So he wouldn't start. If he doesn't like it, then come off the bench and prove me wrong.

    I'm putting Wayne in there because he will bring experience, and he's still our most intelligent player.

    I'm asking Lowe to use his pace and stretch teams down the right. I'm asking him to get into the box to feed Whitaker as much as he can.

    So my team would be, in a 4-2-3-1:

    Hamer

    Roberts Cabango Guehi Naughton

    Smith Fulton

    Dhanda

    Lowe Routledge

    Whitaker

    JackaremedeekaySeaJack
  • Sorry J. But Cooper is not going to grow a pair. and as sensible as your suggestions are, he won’t take a blind bit of notice, and the undroppables will continue to be undroppable.

    As will his one and only tactical masterpiece....

    5 at the back, with Ayew + A N Other up front.

    Oh for free flowing football !!

  • Gary,

    Naughton is a decent shout in a back 4, but what message does that give to both Manning and Bidwell if he gets injured or sent off/suspended? would they be up for it, or think Fk you?

    The problem with not picking Grimes, is you are missing the natural left footer in the middle of the park, so for me, he is in. Especially if he is meant to be a defensive 2, so covering a fullback during transition.

    If he didnt pick Joel as the holding player, then it is about partnerships for me. And I think Fulton and Grimes have more of a history than Smith. So I'd be inclined to go with him.

    no question for me Ayew should be rested tomorrow. Freshen things up front is a must.

    Nobody has even mentioned Oli Cooper yet. He showed against Forest he has an eye for a goal, and can finish. Would he come into the equation in a front 3, with MW and Wayne?

  • Got to give a flat back 4 even though I don't think it will make a difference , the players confidence has gone.

    My Team would be

    Woodman Roberts Cabango Guehi Manning

    Smith Grimes Houriane

    Lowe Whittaker

    Ayew

    But this team doesn't fill me with confidence, there is so many toss ups between players. We have a team now struggling for traditional wingers and the obvious strikers at the club.

  • There's every chance Bidwell and Manning could throw their toys out, sure. But it's a bit like with Ayew for me - come on as sub and prove me wrong. I just think Naughton is more trustworthy at this level. Especially in a 4.

    Grimes would give slightly more balance I agree, but in those deep lying roles being left footed isn't a deal-breaker for me. We never worried it about when it was Joe and Leon.

    I must admit I hadn't realised Oli Cooper was fit again. If he's available then I'd definitely have him involved, even if off the bench initially.

  • I would love to see a back four and agree with all above but I think Grimes could be one of our best players in this system. At present he doesn’t seem to believe in the way he is being asked to play, ie long aimless balls down the flanks. He is a natural game controller, always gets stuck in and always wants the ball.

    Cooper is the problem, not Grimes or Smith or any other of our decent players.

  • I agree Bob. For me grimes has potential when we play correctly, same as yan. Yes he (Yan) has flaws, but he is a small talented player, currently given scraps. He isn't a fit for all games, but he is the only player looking to play on the front foot, he always wants to go forward, trouble is, we are programed now, to go backwards. So he looks out of place. I bet he is a good fit with whittaker. How that was needed against a high press Birmingham that had no fear of us getting behind them.

    Our midfielders can all offer something and they should be picked on how we want to play against certain opposition, physicality or speed. Again trouble is, we do not play football.

    And as is being shown week in week out, we don't or can't change tactics depending on the game or change by opposition. In my opinion, that is why we don't make many subs. He doesn't know how to make the first change and can only react one dimensionally when we concede.

    I hate being negative, but i feel like most do, that things are beyond repair or salvage and we are in a spiral. And by the lethargy shown on the pitch and sidelines, there seems to be no leadership anywhere.

    Where is Leon and his video (sorry dvd) 😂

    deekaySeaJackFyldeJack
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