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Circus Liberty!!

Some timelines from the circus at the Liberty Stadium.

From what we do know from the more reputable journos and the actions of our owners via Julian Winter is that Cooper was touting himself around the clubs before and after the Play Off final, so there was a justifiable case for Winter to seek compensation. The figure of around £4M was no doubt claimed to be too high, neither Palace, Fulham wanted to pay it and time was wasted before the club reluctantly came to a financial agreement for Cooper to leave.

Did Eustace change his mind because of what some journos are saying for personal reasons, was an increase in his salary at QPR too good to turn down, or did Mark Warburton offer advice to Eustace. Whatever discussions Eustace had, and accepted from Winter was days before the journos were revealing Eustace was going to be announced as the new head coach, while I would tend to think that whatever offer Eustace was given by Winter it was unlikely to have changed.

Until the periods when Palace and Fulham had engaged a head coach what Winter should have done is communicate with the fans and indicate what the situation was but failing to do so has made himself(his first real test of his competency) fail miserably at the first hurdle. Keeping quiet about clubs chasing Cooper has done them no favours and yes, Winter was correct in asking for compensation to reimburse the club should Cooper take 3 or 4 staff with him, but to say absolutely nothing makes a huge statement of his communication capabilities as CoE.

Grimes and Roberts have turned down new deals and are out of contract next summer, so, in Grimes’s case do the club gamble and wait until the window closes to get more than what Fulham have offered, or wait until January. Bearing in mind any sell on clause when we signed him from Exeter, realistically, how much more could we expect if we hung on to the last days of this window and also keeping an unhappy player in the matchday squad?

The hunt for a new head coach goes on and my initial thoughts were not that good about Cam Toshack being offered the role but would he be any worse than Jody Morris?

Toshack and Rangel possibly?

PetemoorlandsSeaJack

Comments

  • Hi Colin,

    why were your initial reports about Toshack not good?

    I have no opinion on him. I did like the idea of Angel with Eustace but can’t see that happening now.

  • * initial thoughts

  • Denmark Jack,

    prior to my move to Essex I regularly watched the 18's and 23's at Landore and at the time Toshack and Waggy had a really good squad of players to work with. I had the impression that they worked well together, Tosh being the good cop, Waggy the bad cop, but there was something about Toshack's coaching that I had doubts over. No doubts Cam is his father's son and perhaps that aloofness at times made me wonder if he would ever graduate and be successful in senior football.

    DenmarkJack
  • And what would Cameron Toshacks contacts be?

  • Don't think it's a priority when you have a respected head scout in Andy Scott at the club. The club has already indicated and shown under Cooper's tenure that their identification of players is more important than depending on a head coach's contacts.

  • So I don't suppose Toshacks 80's Martinez, Rogers or Laudrop didn't have contacts, or was their success just luck, Cooper had his England under 17's contacts so managers were eager to allow him to further their football, even if it was boring. No club will have any success without a manager having good contacts and respect from others

  • 'Circus Liberty' at the moment seems wrong.

    Most Circuses (even the Maximus) were about giving the fans spectacle and entertainment.

    Its more like 'RMS Titantic Liberty' with too many passengers ignoring the icebergs even when they are pointed out to them.

    A Titantic Liberty about describes what liberties are being taken atm.

    NorfolkJackSeaJack
  • Phillip,

    when there’s no para payments to pay £1M apiece for PL youngsters do you think there would be more than one of such signings this season if Cooper had stayed, or any youngster from the PL.

    Its a completely different ball game without para payments even you should realise that and Scott is doing now what Kevin Reeves did for Roberto.

    The club was in the ascendancy when Rodgers and Laudrup were in charge, a totally different situation to modern day.

    moorlands
  • The club was not in ascendency when Kevin Reeves came, he came with Brian Flynn.

    They also had connections and got us Leon, Tate, Irikpen, Martinez, Thomas etc.

    No there isn't a parachute but lasts years total wage bill of 15M is dwarfed by a 3M carried over profit, 15,5M Parachute, 11M Rodon, 2.7M Celina and 6M season ticket sales that were not refunded and now a healthy 4M for Grimes.

    We are also 4.5M better off on last years total wages with Ayew gone, the ones we loaned out are released or sold.

    The ones we borrowed were not big earners, probably Hourihane being the most expensive.

    These are not figures plucked out of the air, they are easily checked out.

    I would also like to know where the 5 to 10M was invested in because it certainly wasn't spent on the football club.

    These loonies even spent the clubs money buying a useless plot of land costing 1.4M, did anyone tell them you cant build or extend onto a leasehold building.

    We have owners who only want to make money, end of

    MalagaSeaJack
  • Phillip,

    the club was in the ascendancy following Jackett’s promotion, they were going sideways under Flynn, a virtual miracle they escaped the drop to the Conference and Reeves was no longer employed as head scout after leaving the club along with Flynn in March 2004. Reeves returned to work with Jackett at start of 2006/7 season linking up once more with Roberto in February 2007.

    Your maths will remain ambiguous in many posters minds until you give credit to the source from where you get your information, and while there is a question mark over the club’s finances I dare say the respected Kevin Maguire or Swiss Ramble would be the first to bring it to the fans’ attention.

    deekaymoorlands
  • While the club have not covered themselves in glory, I have some thoughts.

    They obviously knew that Cooper was talking elsewhere. They were ok with that, because they thought if he went they'd get compensation. What they didnt factor in was those clubs werent willing to pay the compensation clause we had with him.

    Now this is the bit I dont understand. IF the level of compo was deemed too high by Palace or Fulham, and Levien and Winter wanted to make a change themselves; then why didnt they lower the compensation? They've taken less money in transfers of top young players, like Rodon. So I cant see why they wouldnt have cut their price to get rid of a manager they had seemingly fallen out with.

    Now, if they also hedged their bets, so if he didnt get a gig, and so no compo, they could get rid of him cheaply on the basis that he'd been talking elsewhere, then they couldnt be openly caught speaking to other managers to replace him, or it would give Cooper an angle to say they were also in the wrong, and get maximum pay-off.

    So all they could really do was create a list of potential replacements. I am not sure they could even use back channels to see who of those would be interested, for the reasons I stated above.

    Now, this is where it gets a bit confusing. IF they had fallen out, then what kept Cooper on for two weeks after they had agreed to part ways?

    There's no way that they were negotiating a pay off for those two weeks, and suddenly, when the story broke, they resolved the issue in hours. I dont buy that.

    And I dont buy that, a day or so after the press statement for Cooper's departure, that they had agreed a deal in principle with Eustace. They had to have been talking in those two weeks via back channels.

    Now, Eustace's rejection.

    The club MUST have been very certain the deal was all but done to have leaked him signing to Gareth Vincent and the BBC. They never publish anything unless it's a certainty.

    So what happened? I dont buy that it is something he's learned about his role at the Swans, or players being sold. As he would have asked all of that.

    His man at the Telegraph has said it was personal. So, as with him turning down opps at Blackpool and Doncaster, perhaps he has family reasons why he doesnt want to up sticks.

    Maybe his wife/partner has a job/business she doesnt want to give up? Maybe they have kids that are at an age they dont want to disrupt their education at a crucial time. I recall Potter saying his family had those difficult conversations, and it nearly didnt happen as a result.

    But what it proves is, just because you have a list of targets, doesnt mean you'll get the ones you want - something I posted a while back, using Palace and West Brom as examples. Both took a long time to find a manager.

    What's clear now is, we dont have time to dick about. If Russell is the man. Then off to pay up. That still may not be enough to get him. But they need to remove as many obstacles as possible, as quickly as possible.

    moorlandsSeaJackdeekayMikeTasmaniaColin_swanseaPAJazzuriswanTauntonJack
  • Funny thing about Eustace is this is not the first time (see Blackpool & Doncaster) so why does he keep going for these jobs, even if he does not apply why have the talks??

    As for the compensation for Cooper maybe he didn't wow them enough for the discussion to take place about the compensation and any reduction thereof (just because press said he was favourite doesn't mean he was eve seriously considered).

    I think he was used as press bait to flush out the managers that Palace and Fulham really wanted (I mean Brighton didn't mess about with Potter because they wanted him and he really was their No1 target).

  • Morning every one, Mark ,the Siggy transfer , look how long that dragged on for and it was the owners who were negotiators in that case so wonder if that is the case with your thoughts and not Winter after all he is no Birch , i wish he was still here ( Birch that is)

    SeaJackJackareme
  • 9 days to go, and it looks like the circus is showing no sign of packing up and moving on to the next town 😄

    SeaJackLlanjack
  • Any decent circus has a ringmaster to conduct and direct all the proceedings around him. It would appear that JW isn’t up to the task as it stands.

    Llanjack
  • He is more like one of the clowns!

    LlanjackSeaJack
  • At least circus clowns are funny

    Andrew_North_HillLlanjackSeaJack
  • Can we fire him out of a cannon!

    SeaJack
  • Special report: The 'complete and utter shambles' of Swindon Town – The Athletic

    If you think we are a shambles have a read of what is happening at Swindon. Not your usual bog standard, lower league basket case of a football club but a club that has a strong supporter base, joined the Football League in 1920 the same time as the Swans, beat Arsenal in the 1969 League Cup Final at Wembley, gaining promotion to the Premier League in 1993. Recently taken over by Australian businessman Clem Morfuni one hopes that they don't suffer the same fate as what the cockney Australian Tony Petty inflicted on the Swans back in 2001.

    SeaJack
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