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Alan Tate

Well the position has been formalised and Alan has left the club.

More than a little sad to see it happen, but I understand why he has made/felt he had to make the decision. If he wants to further his career in coaching then there is nothing on offer at the club.

A hard reality.

All the best YJB

JackarememoorlandsSeaJack
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Comments

  • So Curt still has a role as honorary president (which presumably is honorific only as the title suggests) and now both Leon and Tatey have gone. I was hoping Angel or Wayne would be brought back to be honest - we need that continuity with the past and understanding of the fans.

    JackRavenmoorlandsjasper_T
  • Leon is still involved at the club, and when covid allows, pops along to watch training.

    I believe Nathan does too. Very early for him to decide what he'll do next, but I dont think he's interested in coaching or managing.

    Not sure what Wayne is up to. Some rumours he went back to London. I imagine he's taking time out before deciding what to do next. Try and find another club, or retire. He's left us all dangling with his last message on social media.

    Angel. Well, he pissed on his chips with the American owners, so difficult to see him having a role until they push off. As disappointed as he must have been, he should have kept his trap shut if he ever fancied coming back after retirement.

  • Leon was present with Kris O’Leary and his staff at the U23s game today.

    JackaremeMark_Jack_LondonSeaJack
  • Tate wasn't here to be "continuity with our past", he is a qualified coach who worked his way up through the academy groups before being given influence at senior level. We've still got one old boy on the payroll for shaking hands and keeping the fans sweet in Trundle.

    Qualified applicants only imo.

  • @jasper_T

    Glad to see you still know the price of everything and..

  • tate choosing Forest over Swansea is bot a good sign

  • Assistant manager at Forest over "loan manager" at Swansea. Russell Martin has his trusted team, no room for Tate. The only slightly strange thing is that Tate is the only one to follow Cooper to his new club (of the coaching staff, think the analyst Rands went as well). The coaching team Cooper brought with him have gone their separate ways.

  • Not surprised Marge didnt go with him. Marge lives locally, and that was the only reason he took the club job, as it was on his doorstep. He has a gig with England. He wasnt going to move to Nottingham.

    Marsh not going is an eye-opener. Did Marsh not fancy it? There was talk he wasnt well when pre-season started, if I remember correctly.

    Rands is the only other ex-Swan that is at Forest.

  • Until recently, both the manager and the management understood the importance - both symbolically and practically - of having someone on hand who knew where the kettle was. We have had this in abundance in the past - at board level, on the coaching team and in the squad, with club captains separate from match-day captains etc.

    Now our captain is running down his contract, our longest serving player (I guess) is Kyle, who is a great servant to the club but hardly comes across as sweating black and white blood like Ash, Leon, Angel or Tatey did, I can’t think of anyone on the coaching staff who is here for love of the club rather than the opportunity it presents and if the Trust win their legal case and sell all their shares we’ll lose our last true supporter on the board.

    I don’t think that’s a healthy development, personally.

    deekay
  • The average length of service with the Swans of the starting line-up against Man City in August 2011 was 2.5 years. And that was with three completely new players and Routledge coming on as a sub so not counting towards that total.

    Our starting line-up against Hull had an average service of 1.25 years, and most of that is down to two players - Kyle Naughton and Matt Grimes, who is likely to be gone before the end of the season (along with Fulton).

    I am not drawing any massive conclusions from that - in order to compete at this level we have to sell exactly those players who love the club the most and would stay if they could. But it's another cause of concern for me - we are looking increasingly like a franchise.

  • Looking at the team for Potter's first game against Sheffield United , Fulton was the only starter , on the bench Grimes and Dhanda . Naughton on the bench for the second game , Benda on the bench for the last 8 games ,

    So 5 players out of a squad of 25 plus that is a complete change of personal.

  • edited September 25

    Thanks Malc, but I don’t think that’s correct. Potter’s starting line-up against Sheffield had an average of just under 2 years experience, despite having three players who had only just joined the club. We are of course one of the youngest squads in the Championship. My question is not so much about how long the players have been with us but rather how long they are going to be with us.

  • I wasn't making the same point as you , the changes to the squad of players we have now compared to three years ago is there to see ,

    The conclusion I see we are not likely to build a team over say three years with the owners and financial difficulties of the Championship.

    Once we have a good player they will be sold , expectations need to reflect where we are .

  • Cadleigh,

    In so many cases football has become a merry go round as far as the movement of players, coaches and even directors of football are concerned, and I tend to look at the role of agents and players’ representatives and what is in their, or their clients’ benefit, rather than the club they play for that situation to change.

    We have been a club in one form or other who have been in transition on and off the field since Laudrup was sacked and most probably that state has accelerated from the time our owners took over in 2016.

    It might not be a healthy development as far as you are concerned but the professional game has become a ‘shifting sand scenario’ and as much as I felt at one time I would never say it, until the club gets to a position where it has more of a ‘local’ hands on situation regarding the day to day control, as Jenkins, Morgan etc. had, in the period between 2005 and 2012, I can’t see our current position changing.

    We have always been a club, even during the Jenkins and Morgan era that had to sell its players let alone managers to balance the books but until there is more transparency, confidence and openness from our owners that lack of confidence will continue.

    SeaJack
  • Cooper and Cullen must bring up the average a fair bit when they're involved. Cabango arrived when he was ~15. Know the club, love the club.

    Average age of our starting lineup against Luton was 26.2, which isn't anything remarkable in this division. Our lineups have tended younger in some matches this season because elder statesmen Bennett and Naughton both had their covid layoffs. Smith's been injured, Fulton is out of the side because we recruited better than him. There's plenty of experience in the squad these days.

  • There are still some old faces around the club. Curt, Leon, Trundle, all watch training. KoL is coaching.

    And there comes a time when you need to move on from the past.

    I mean, who from the past, apart from Curt and briefly Leon, has really been a part of any backroom? And only Pascoe and Curt being part of successful teams, under Brenda and Laudrup.

    It is good for Tate to go and experience a different environment, and learn the next stage of his coaching career.

    Martin doesnt have time to carry and teach a coach at the same time as he's trying to re-set the team.

    LlanjackSeaJack
  • On your point about fotball becoming more of a 'shifting sands' game in the decade since we got promoted to the Premier League, I thought I'd take a look at how Brentford and Norwich shaped up at the start of last season. Both came in with an average service of 1.82 years, with one player each with 4 years at the club and at least a couple each with 3. I think to be successful you need that blend of players who are loyal to the club and fresh talent which is just passing through, and although we may not see many Steve Bull type careers going forward, it's not unrealistic to think that we could find another Angel Rangel, Wayne Routledge or Nathan Dyer. Who knows, maybe one of our new recruits will fall in love with the area and be one of the rocks on which we build for the future.

  • A massive difference in "length of service" is the age of the players - we have really injected a lot of youth into the squad - and personally I believe this is how we build a robust business model - no longer do we have journeymen playing through long contracts - we have young player with potential who we WILL sell to invest in the next generation.

    Llanjack
  • Cadleigh,

    how on earth can yo compare us to two stable clubs as Brentford and Norwich

    Llanjack
  • edited September 25

    Yes, I made the point about the age of the squad at 9.56am. Of course that is a factor.

    As to your other point, give me a team of journeymen like Wayne Routledge and Nathan Dyer every time.

  • I picked those just because they got promoted last time. If you want to pick another two teams that were less ‘stable’ and managed to be successful at our level, I am happy to crunch the numbers. I am fairly certain that any club you name will have fielded a mix of new players and longer-serving ones.

  • The absolute LoS is indicative, but not definitive.

    @Cadleigh 's point , I believe highlights the issue of continuity within the team between seasons, which is very important to a successful team.

    Cadleigh
  • edited September 26

    I like that phrase, 'know the club, love the club'. That's precisely what I'm talking about. During the dying days of our time in the Premier League we brought in plenty of players who were dismissed as 'mercenaries' who were only interested in the money, Sam Clucas being the most obvious example. It's interesting to discuss how fair that was but at the time, there was a clear distinction in supporters' minds between players who 'love the club' - Andre Ayew for example - and those who were just passing through. Those who loved the club included some journeymen who finally found a permanent home - Routledge, Dyer, Rangel (he was 24 and had had five clubs before he joined us), some young players who joined and never wanted to leave (Britton and Tate were both 20 when they started with the Swans) and some established players who grew to love the club (eg Fabianski, Ayew).

    We have recently shipped out some players - Oli, Connor - whose love for the club was obvious. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places, but I'm not seeing that same love of club in the new faces we are bringing in. Maybe it will come in time. But I am puzzled by the fact that few on here seem bothered by it, when it excited so much passion back in 2017/18.

  • I believe it’s too early to call at the moment Cadleigh. The majority have barely kicked a ball for the Swans so I would hang fire on that take on things for now. Let’s not forget Leon’s defection to Sheffield United, something which would have been unforgivable if it had been any mere Swans mortal. In the early days of Routledge’s career with our club I predicted, wrongly, that we would just be another one of those clubs where he would find it difficult to settle. Leon is still hailed as a great, and rightly so despite the slip up, and Routledge is up there with him too.

  • A lot of the love for the Swans is players who get to love the supporters - the quality of life the welcoming people and the house prices!

    Maybe a few of this crop will similarly get seduced!

    SeaJack
  • hopefully puts an end to the shite talk about him being pushed out.

  • TThe song title " love the one you're with" seems about right here

    Players have to go where they can thrive and where they can earn the most

    It's a short career

    So they love you and leave you

    Even Curt-he came back but had to leave when we were on the slide

  • Loads of people on Social Media saying Martin pushed him out of the club.

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