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No Transfer Budget

From Coopers presser it doesn't look like he has any transfer budget as he said any additions would be loans or creative deals
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  • I didn't hear that. He said there were options for loans as he'd been contacted by former players, and that creativity is required to get the best players and deals for the club, but not that we were stuck otherwise.
  • ‘Creative deals’ could mean anything to be fair. And its true, at this point in time he doesn’t have a transfer budget - he won’t until the Ayews, Baston and probably Jeff are out the door. Which we all hope will be soon so he can get on with spending the money freed up by their salaries, but if those deals drag on then he won’t be able to spend money we don’t have. So full marks to him for honesty and not giving any hostages to fortune. I am impressed by today’s showing.
    enaitchJackareme
  • Not forgetting that loan players come at a price while creative deals could possibly be players signed or transferred in part exchange deals.
  • I find myself in total agreement with you Cadders! I thought he came across very well, very positive, no silly promises either. He had my support before this but I am now really behind him and looking forward to pre-season and then the big kick-off.
    Cadleigh
  • Ayews are in the Africa cup of nations which starts this weekend, so there will be no movement on them until their team is out and clubs know they are not injured in the competition
  • So who are these former players who want to work together again?
    Any ideas who Mr Cooper is referring to?
    CCV maybe?
  • I think former players may be the ones he has dealt with at England youth and Liverpool . ( I hope ) 
  • I floated the idea some time ago that our reboot model looks to be closely aligned with that of Crewe down the years - always neat and tidy, always producing/being the finishing school for decent academy/u21 players, all whilst being a little lightweight and always on the tightest budget imaginable.

    Certainly last season seemed to indicate something along those lines and by the looks of it we can look forward to more of the same this summer and in years to come. 

    The big difference between us and Crewe is that we should be setting our sights a bit higher than being a lower three tiers club. We've got better infrastructure, a bigger brand, a better stadium, etc. They have no choice. We are cutting our nose off to spite our face. We all know why.

    I realise many will be happy with the idea of pretty football in the lower divisions. Each to their own.
  • Gary - which Premier League team would you like to see us emulate, if we get back to the Promised Land? Villa? Palace? Southampton? Watford? Leicester? Norwich? Every single one has been relegated from the Premier League, often after a series of increasingly lack-lustre seasons in which they appear to have run out of ideas, then dusted themselves down and got back up again. If that’s what you want for us, then we can look forward to a future of cycles of elation, excitement, expectation, frustration, disillusion, and disappointment, in that order. I’m fine with that, but I reckon I would be just as happy - if not happier - if we stay in the Championship indefinitely, competing but never quite getting back to the Land of Milk, Honey, Inflated Salaries and Broken Dreams, particularly if we continue to pay pretty football.

    But we sure as hell are not going to break into the cartel of seven clubs that have a permanent place at the top table, so if we go up, then get ready for us to go down again. And maybe next time there won’t be any comedy villains for us to pin the blame on.
  • I want us to get back to the PL, but We cant afford to buy into the illusions of the PL, our challenge would be to stay in the PL for 20 years and build our club but do it as the best Championship Club in the PL rather than the worst Premier League club in the PL.

    What I mean by that is we have to bring the attitude of last season and hopefully this season into the PL and not change it when we get promoted. You notice that both Sheffield and Norwich are attempting to copy our approach in  the first season in the Pl (although it was enforced by some degree) to not splash the cash and trust in our existing players in the PL.

    We set the standard and we need to get back to that same standard again. If we dont aim to move forward, its a sad reality we will fall back.
  • Martyn said:
    Ayews are in the Africa cup of nations which starts this weekend, so there will be no movement on them until their team is out and clubs know they are not injured in the competition
    the deals could still be lined up - agents agreeing personal details, and clubs agreeing fees while in duty. That was done with DJ recently.

    then the deal pushed through - some have even happened during tournaments - where a medical is available. More likely if there is competition for signatures.
  • Cadleigh said:
    Gary - which Premier League team would you like to see us emulate, if we get back to the Promised Land? Villa? Palace? Southampton? Watford? Leicester? Norwich? Every single one has been relegated from the Premier League, often after a series of increasingly lack-lustre seasons in which they appear to have run out of ideas, then dusted themselves down and got back up again. If that’s what you want for us, then we can look forward to a future of cycles of elation, excitement, expectation, frustration, disillusion, and disappointment, in that order. I’m fine with that, but I reckon I would be just as happy - if not happier - if we stay in the Championship indefinitely, competing but never quite getting back to the Land of Milk, Honey, Inflated Salaries and Broken Dreams, particularly if we continue to pay pretty football.

    But we sure as hell are not going to break into the cartel of seven clubs that have a permanent place at the top table, so if we go up, then get ready for us to go down again. And maybe next time there won’t be any comedy villains for us to pin the blame on.
    The point I'm trying to make - and I'm pretty sure you know this Cadleigh, you're just being your usual disingenuous self ;) is that I think we are, or at least should be, better than just a souped-up, deluxe version of Crewe. Far from Championship stagnation worrying me, it's the slow gradual creep downwards that comes from years of owner apathy and underinvestment. There are examples aplenty. I'm sure you don't need me to list them.

    As I've said on another thread, this sort of discourse - where anyone not just blindly accepting the status quo is basically Peter Ridsdale - really doesn't help the quality of debate, and it lets our current owners off the hook. 
  • Gary - I agree, it’s impossible to aim to stay in the Championship indefinitely. Like a shark, we have to keep trying to move forward or we’ll drown. But that doesn’t mean I look forward to going back to the EPL. Tickets are over-priced, the catering is no better and the football is often mediocre.

    Wish I had SHJ’s optimism that 20 years in the top flight is a possibility, but the reality is we did bloody well by staying up for seven. 
  • Seven Years last time, now we have had a dry run, we have learnt our lesson......I hope.
  • Seven Years last time, now we have had a dry run, we have learnt our lesson......I hope.
    Couldn't agree more, if we gave up trying for promotion nobody will want to come and play for us and we would be fighting relegation sooner than you think.
  • Seven Years last time, now we have had a dry run, we have learnt our lesson......I hope.
    I admire your optimism but I am damned if I can think of a lesson we can take away from those seven years. For every principle that looks nailed down I can think of something that proves the opposite.

    - Put your faith in unproven managers as long as they have the right philosophy - Roberto (Clements)
    - Look for top performers at smaller clubs in Spain/the Netherlands rather than paying for overpriced Premier League players - Bony (Baston)
    - If you’ve let a good ‘un go, get him back if you get the chance - Joey (Bony)
    - Trust the chairman if they are doing a good job - Jenkins (Jenkins)
    - Young players can step up if you give them the chance - Joey and many more (Sanches)
    - Let the manager have a free hand in recruitment - Roberto (Laudrup)

    Given our supporter base and the income our gates bring in, we are punching far above our weight to be finishing in the top half of the Championship. We do have a chance of doing even better thanks largely to the foresight of the old board - the ‘sell-outs’ in investing in an academy and first-class training facilities instead of taking bigger dividends, and the restraint of the new board in keeping our first tier academy status when they could have downgraded to tier three. But to argue that this equips us to buck the cycles that plague much better supported, financed and managed teams like Southampton, Norwich or Palace - sorry but I think that’s wishful thinking. I hope I’m wrong, but if we get back up I would be amazed if we could stay there for 20 years.
  • Ok I like a challenge, give me a day or two and see if I can convince you.
    Cadleigh
  • For a club the size of ours, recruitment and commercial/sponsorship issues are key. For a club built on controlled finances it became only a matter of time before key management were out of control, only to escalate when personal gain was sought and new owners were reluctant to invest their own cash. Not quite the right pathway that takes a club to the next level, as fans were told at the time.

    Throw in the conundrum/gamble of financing two training grounds and continuing to fund a playing squad fit for the Premier League and Catagory 1 status in the academy, and the gamble could easily have continued but for piss poor decision making on the manager's position to finally catch up with the club. Which is the most important role at any football club? The manager or the chief executive? You make your own mind up but for every poor manager that was hired the chief executive remained in position.

    From Flynn to Rodgers players were purchased within the club's budget, not always sought from the club's scouting system but sometimes via a manager's contact book. That continued with Tutumulu and Laudrup only to fall apart midway through Laudrup's second season.

    Does a football club start to lose itself when large amounts of cash are spent on players, as every club in the PL appears to do, while it listens to the fans demands on social media, or can it be said that not all players recruited will be successful. A true fact, but for a small club like ours, large amounts of cash spent on recruitment should only be made if the decision makers became more responsible. 

    The likes of Saints, Norwich and Palace have higher profile financial people involved within their club, have slightly bigger supporter numbers, but they are more experienced in the dogfight between the PL and Championship. Stuart Webber at Norwich is taking a lot of credit as far as decision making is concerned these last two seasons, but he wasn't there when Lambert was manager when he led them to the PL the same season as us, while the same applies to Saints, when they rejoined the PL after dropping down to League 1. Saints, Norwich and Palace have well established academies/development centres while our academy in a shorter period of time is starting to develop a better quality of player than what it did five years ago.

    As a club we were punching well above our weight to get to the PL and it continued for a few years but when the balance between financial prudency and risk tilted too far one way the club just morphed into just another football club. 
    Cadleigh
  • After watching the SC Press Conference via the Official Site I think he will have a good go at the job,and as he comes from a different section of the football world than any of our recent managers/coaches, it looks to me as though it could be an interesting season.I liked his words and attitude,he was understandably nervous initially, but soon got into his stride.This could be a stroke of genius by the Club,and having appointed him I think they will support him.

    One interesting thing that came out was that he has kept away from Twitter since he got the job,a good plan if you ask me,and for his sanity  I hope he keeps it up.
  • edited June 19
    I think the OP may well be right.

    Lots of talk about loans.

    SWANSEA BOSS COOPER EYES LOAN ADDITIONS

    SWANSEA CITY HEAD COACH STEVE COOPER HOPES A CREATIVE APPROACH IN THE TRANSFER MARKET WILL HELP HIM FIND THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO STRENGTHEN HIS FIRST-TEAM SQUAD.

    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-boss-cooper-eyes-loan-additions
  • barry said:
    I think the OP may well be right.

    Lots of talk about loans.

    SWANSEA BOSS COOPER EYES LOAN ADDITIONS

    SWANSEA CITY HEAD COACH STEVE COOPER HOPES A CREATIVE APPROACH IN THE TRANSFER MARKET WILL HELP HIM FIND THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO STRENGTHEN HIS FIRST-TEAM SQUAD.

    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-boss-cooper-eyes-loan-additions
    No doubt the pelters will follow for saying this but I really don't agree with loans. In my opinion it is no way to build a cohesive team for the long term.

    If it goes well, they'll probably go somewhere bigger at the end. 

    If it doesn't go well - Abraham, McEachran and Sanches being good examples - then they start eyeing the exit door and virtually down tools until they can go 'home'. 

    If we want to build something long term, this is not the way to go.
  • Crewe were run by some child molesters so I'd rather we didn't emulate them.

    barry said:
    I think the OP may well be right.

    Lots of talk about loans.

    SWANSEA BOSS COOPER EYES LOAN ADDITIONS

    SWANSEA CITY HEAD COACH STEVE COOPER HOPES A CREATIVE APPROACH IN THE TRANSFER MARKET WILL HELP HIM FIND THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO STRENGTHEN HIS FIRST-TEAM SQUAD.

    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-boss-cooper-eyes-loan-additions
    No doubt the pelters will follow for saying this but I really don't agree with loans. In my opinion it is no way to build a cohesive team for the long term.

    If it goes well, they'll probably go somewhere bigger at the end. 

    If it doesn't go well - Abraham, McEachran and Sanches being good examples - then they start eyeing the exit door and virtually down tools until they can go 'home'. 

    If we want to build something long term, this is not the way to go.
    We already have a sizeable group of young players developing together. One or two temporary additions to help them along wouldn't hurt, if it's the best way to fill specific gaps like the one DJ has left in the starting lineup. We're not Derby, who look back to square one without Mount, Wilson and Tomori. 

    We don't want to be bringing in other clubs' young prospects to play ahead of those here long term, like Rodon & Byers, and even a few further back in the u23s who haven't made their debuts yet, certainly.
  • " but if we get back up I would be amazed if we could stay there for 20 years."

    Of course that will never happen. History of the PL  has shown us as much. Only the top boys stay at the top table.

    More than happy to go up for 3/4 seasons then rebuild again in a lower division. Yo-Yo club so to speak

    When you hear the word "being creative" in the transfer market you can assume we haven't got a pot to p!ss in.
  • @JoH If you are ‘More than happy to.......rebuild again in a lower division” then you cant complain about us not having money, because thats us rebuilding. There is a better way if we prepare for it.
  • Not sure I agree with that. SHJ. Real Madrid are rebuilding post Ronaldo and they are minted.  Unless on misinterpreting what you are saying 
  • I was just commenting on where we are is what rebuilding in the lower dividion is like for us unless we find a better way.
    JoH
  • barry said:
    I think the OP may well be right.

    Lots of talk about loans.

    SWANSEA BOSS COOPER EYES LOAN ADDITIONS

    SWANSEA CITY HEAD COACH STEVE COOPER HOPES A CREATIVE APPROACH IN THE TRANSFER MARKET WILL HELP HIM FIND THE RIGHT PLAYERS TO STRENGTHEN HIS FIRST-TEAM SQUAD.

    https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-boss-cooper-eyes-loan-additions
    No doubt the pelters will follow for saying this but I really don't agree with loans. In my opinion it is no way to build a cohesive team for the long term.

    If it goes well, they'll probably go somewhere bigger at the end. 

    If it doesn't go well - Abraham, McEachran and Sanches being good examples - then they start eyeing the exit door and virtually down tools until they can go 'home'. 

    If we want to build something long term, this is not the way to go.
    Loans are just another form of transfer and like any transfer some will be a success and some will not work out.

    Examples of good loans are Leon Britton, Alan Tate & Jonathan De Guzman!!

    Two of the 3 teams promoted from the Championship last season made good use of the loan market (Villa & Sheffield Utd).

    It would be folly not to utilise the new managers contacts (and I doubt we could afford the young talent he has been coaching at England and Liverpool). So use the loan market well and sign players we need (I agree not to stunt the development of our players) 

     
    barry
  • He left Liverpool 6 years ago. He's unlikely to have the inside scoop on their emerging stars.

    Toshack and Richards probably know their players better given how often we played them last season (PL2 and international cup games). I only remember Lazar Markovic as looking a definite level above what we have from those games, and he's obviously not an academy player.

    People (media and fans) tend to overvalue big club academy players compared to our own, despite last season's massive successes and our supposedly equal academy status. Helps when their manager actively talks up their next generations (including Dhanda not so long ago). Being forced to use our own young players was used as an excuse for Potter, when he wasn't performing miracles getting them to play.
  • jasper_T said:
    He left Liverpool 6 years ago. He's unlikely to have the inside scoop on their emerging stars.

    Toshack and Richards probably know their players better given how often we played them last season (PL2 and international cup games). I only remember Lazar Markovic as looking a definite level above what we have from those games, and he's obviously not an academy player.

    People (media and fans) tend to overvalue big club academy players compared to our own, despite last season's massive successes and our supposedly equal academy status. Helps when their manager actively talks up their next generations (including Dhanda not so long ago). Being forced to use our own young players was used as an excuse for Potter, when he wasn't performing miracles getting them to play.
    Not taking anything away from some of our U23's performances against the top teams in recent seasons, but invariably these teams had many of their top youngsters out on loan or played many of their promising youngsters from their academy's U18 side.

    Is Spurs defender Eyoma that much better than Joe Lewis, Brandon Cooper or Cabango let alone the promising Rushesha to warrant paying a loan fee and leaving them to play another season in the 23's. 

  • I agree that you should not take someone else's youngster to block the path of your own. 
    The cute analysis is to understand the pattern of play that we aspire to and the demands placed upon each position.
    Having done this - if we can then compare our existing talent pool (1st team squad) and pipeline (U23's) against those demands then our recruitment gaps should become clear.

    We then target the players that make our squad complete and release (ideally sell) those that we can no longer afford (the big 5 earners) or who cannot meet the expectations of the role that they play.

    Having said that....It is clear to me that even before these analytical thoughts take place - we need to find a striker that will be able to deliver at Championship level  in tandem with, or in replacement of Ollie should he be injured or suspended. I would be amazed if we did not also target a centre half with physical maturity and presence to provide competition and cover for Joe and VdH (I think we are a year too early for the "in house" promising youngsters in this critical area) some of Lewis, Cooper and  Cabango should gain experience on loan, while Harries provides 1st team cover.

    I hope that Cooper's thoughts are similar to those outlined above..
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