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Match Discussion: Swans v Stoke City - Championship 2019/20

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  • The reason we look exhausted is because we aren't keeping the ball and controlling games.

    We have improved defensively in open play and set pieces, and we have become far more clinical in front of goal, but it is masking structural issues in a midfield where Fulton can't pass 5 yards, Grimes seems to have been affected by being made captain, and a lack of a No10 to link midfield and attack because Celina is being played out of position on the left.

    The possession stats are down, the passing accuracy is down, the stats don't lie
    We haven't improved defensively from open play. We concede more chances per game than we did in the second half of last season, bailed out by a decent goalkeeper and woeful opposition finishing. Today was another example of how open we've been, they couldn't manage a shot on target against Huddersfield but Woodman had a very busy day. Derby, Leeds, QPR... Charlton was uncomfortable viewing but we won so I was just moaning for no reason, apparently.

    Possession and controlling games if a big part of keeping the number of chances we allow down. The focus this season on quicker ball and higher tempo has major drawbacks when players are tired and some aren't technically capable of playing accurately at pace.
    Wyngarythenotrashcougar
  • Playing from the back has always been our way but this new rule where a goal kick doesn't have to go outside the box is nonsense for us.
    On a few occasions today we had about 3 passes inside the box, then 3 passes just outside to go back to the keeper to hoof it up.
    Then on other occasions 3 passes inside the box, then one to Roberts who gave it away because he was under pressure, the same when Fulton and Grimes received.
    Playing from the back is fine especially to look for players in space but 6 or 7 passes only to lose the ball 20 yards out is madness. Today our style put our fullbacks and holding midfielders under immense pressure.
    By the time Celina, Dhanda, Ayew had the ball, they had 10 men back, Bojan was feeding off scraps, the top five forward spent more time chasing than playing with the ball.
    We have some very skilful and fast players but they need the ball more in the opposing half  
    WynGingergit
  • Pablo said:
    rob_h said:
    Our players looked tired out. This seems to have been our main problem.

    In hindsight Cooper should have put a rotated team out full of players with fresh legs. We were OK up until 20 minutes, then Stoke were getting more fired up but we were looking really fatigued. How can we get tired after only 20 minutes?

    Only 2 days rest after Wednesday,  should have been just some easy light training, I'm not sure if they did too much or not, but why did the players get so tired?

    It would have been much better to put a fresh team out similar to the one we had against Watford I think now (in hindsight). 
    If you gauge a lack of fitness in playing a match two days back what does that say about Stoke's dynamic performance today after playing a game 3 days back. They had more desire, rode the conceding of the first goal and created more chances than our team. Stoke pressed in all the important areas of the field, rode their luck with the referee over some vigorous, illegal challenges and should have gone in at half-time ahead.
    Joey, their no. 8 and no.27 controlled the tempo of midfield while the lack of good service to Baston made even Carter-Vickers look a good player along with c/back Batth.
    Plenty for Cooper to think about but no doubt the Stoke right back Edwards relished the challenge today far more than when he was roasted time and time again last season by Dan James that saw him receive a red card after 60 minutes. 


    We didn't make Carter Vickers look good....he is good, it's just that fans didn't appreciate how good. Booing former players also didn't work, not very bright and it's proved to be catalyst also. 
    Stoke knew a loss and it was the manager sacked, so they played for him and if they do that every game they will rise up the table fast. By contrast we were complacent and second best. Really strange how it was a mirror of the Charlton game. 
    I don't think though it requires us to get too negative. Sometimes you just have to credit the opposition, and this is one of those times. 
    A young kid died and the fans gave  deserved applause, that also put it into perspective for me...it is after all only a game.
    Nathan Jones has been at the last chance saloon for far more weeks that other clubs would tolerate and that speaks volumes for the Coates family that control the club.
    I am not interested in Stoke’s performance only in my own team and outside influences as you suggested in all honesty should play no part in what should have been a professional performance by our team against a struggling team. 
    No argument whatsoever can compensate such a pitiful performance from our team.
    YJB07
  • We didn't do the basics - says Cooper !
    Not quite right , we were sussed beforehand ! ...... And we were not allowed to do the basics ! Whenever the supporters look at our game and get frustrated because "our" game isn't working it is because the opposition have a game plan and we are too one dimensional to be able to find an answere to it !
    This is a big problem ! We either have to be better at applying our game or have a plan B which we do not have or more so we do not have the players to apply plan B !
    My view is where teams like Stoke out muscle us we have to circumnavigate the problem by playing
     "FASTER" and avoid the physical game on the pitch !
    today when we passed back it excarbeted the problem of not really knowing what to do !
    KeithJackareme
  • I don't often agree with Pablo's posts, but, his comment today:

    'A young kid died and the fans gave  deserved applause, that also put it into perspective for me...it is after all only a game.'

    Spot on Pablo. I honour your remarks.

    We lost today. So what. A game of football.
    Pablo
  • That was a very poor performance from top of the table Swansea today. After the euphoria of the deserved win at Charlton we came down to earth with a big bump. Did the players think they just had  to turn up as Stoke were bottom of the table? Where was the leadership? Pace? Too many passes around the box instead of shooting with the wet surface.
  • A bit of an over-reaction here, especially given that we dominated proceedings once Byers came on. The winner when it came was against the run of play, and given how we finished the game I don't think fatigue was as much of an issue as some make it out to be.

    Having said that it was disappointing to see how poorly we looked after the ball today. Yes the high press and the diamond formation worked well for Stoke, but Woodman was too eager to hoof the ball downfield for my liking, and when we  did try and play the ball out we lacked conviction. 

    Although Fulton has had a decent season we really should be playing Byers instead of him, at home at least. It would be unfair to pick on Fulton in isolation, but collectively we've got too many players on the side who are either unable or unwilling to cherish the ball, and in Byers we have a alternative to Fulton who's strong in the passing department. 

    There's not much wrong, but Cooper needs to tweak the emphasis more towards dominating the ball - and to do that he needs to put out a team to achieve that goal.
    LlanjackbarryPablodeekayColinNorthampton

  • I didn't see the game and had to put up with the usual poor commentary from the reserve commentator on BBC Wales who trots out the scores in other games, and advertises the evening phone-in programme time after time, rather than tell us what is happening on the pitch.However luckily Ian Walsh was alongside him and as usual made it bearable.Ian's overall comment was that Stoke wanted it more than we did,and well deserved the points on merit.
    LlanjackPablo
  • Wyn, surely we were woeful before and after Byers came on. We kept giving the the ball away and didn't have a clue how to play it out from the back. Hopeless. Stoke passed us off the field. 
    LlanjackYJB07garythenotrashcougar
  • I totally agree with you Jeremy,for me it’s all about tempo.it doesn’t matter how much teams press u iff you’ve got the ball then you’re in charge quick short sharp accurate passing will always counter act it.problem is you’ve got to be good at it.leeds don’t seem to have a problem with the hard press they just up the tempo.im a bit dubious listening to some of sc rethoric when he says we tried to put the opposition in the part of the pitch where we wanted them.sounds straight out of a coaching manual go me a bit to robotic.what you think the opposition don’t suss that out!i hope sc is a bit more inotive and hasn’t been coached himself to death.time will tell?
  • Have seen the goals on sky sports two sloppy goals to give away expected three points today 
  • moorlands said:

    I didn't see the game and had to put up with the usual poor commentary from the reserve commentator on BBC Wales who trots out the scores in other games, and advertises the evening phone-in programme time after time, rather than tell us what is happening on the pitch.However luckily Ian Walsh was alongside him and as usual made it bearable.Ian's overall comment was that Stoke wanted it more than we did,and well deserved the points on merit.
    "Wanted it more" talk about your cliches.
  • I've just watched the first Stoke goal again and I have to say, for someone who held his hands up after the Forest game, Grimes doesn't seem to have learned his lesson about taking one for the team. His attempt at stopping Joe Allen getting into the box was feeble - as a deep lying midfielder, I'm sorry but you have to do better than that. Foul him, pull his shirt, do whatever you must do but don't let him roll you on the edge of your own area.

    For all the neat and tidy passing he brings, I have always had my doubts about the protection he affords his own back 4. 

    Much like Rodon in the Reading game, bad decision making in the defensive third of the pitch will cost you dearly.
  • Well, that wasn’t in the script. The word abysmal springs to mind as the perfect word to sum up that performance. I couldn’t help but feel that this might be a repeat of the Reading game when we went a goal up, and sure enough it happened, only worse as we lost. My first opportunity to see this one since the Leeds game and I have to say I wish I’d seen the Wednesday match up against Charlton instead. The only saving grace about being 4th in the table after losing is that at least there is still only a point in it to match West Brom at the top. All is not lost, even if it may feel like that right now.
  • MarkG said:
    Wyn, surely we were woeful before and after Byers came on. We kept giving the the ball away and didn't have a clue how to play it out from the back. Hopeless. Stoke passed us off the field. 
    54% possession and seven corners to 1 (most earned after Byers came on) don't square with that assessment. Don't get me wrong we were far from our best today for sure, but the narrative is being shoehorned to match the result. As is always the case.
    Pablo
  • Gary TTC
    Presume that is sarcasm and in fun
    Otherwise it would seem that you were blinkered today, presume you were not tho'
    The team definitely should be criticised today and the manager and staff
    They were dreadful
    Even Woodman should be looking to pump ball up field more often 

    Morriston Jack - after a performance and result like that, I think you presume correctly. I was just basking in the irony of the self-appointed forum PC Plod turning into a bent copper!
    bask away Gary but don't let it go to your fat head ;)
  • I’ve read a post on Planetswans claiming that Joe Allen deserved a red. Can anyone confirm this?
  • I just didn't see us dominate proceedings once Byers came on. Their winner was inevitable, because our passing was desperate and all over the place. We looked a bottom 3 team.

    I would like us to play celina inside, and Ayew and play one defensive midfielder with 2 wingers, at least at home. Hopefully celina and ayew will link up with Baston and get us goals. 
    Brownie
  • The Banana skin i and others others forecast came to be, unfortunately ,  but we are still not in a bad place are we?
    The manager has stated he is upset at the way we played and i for one am hoping he sorts it out and quickly, for me January will be  a time when the owners will either back the guy or not, as i write we could and can be promoted with a little bit of new blood, wonder if we will get any?
    A bad day at the office but do not despair we could be watching and supporting a spurs team conceding 10 goals in 2 games.
  • Need to get back to playing with width and pace with Celina if he plays at 10, and not wide. Terrible result but with an international break now, a chance to iron out the issues (hopefully)
  • Well that was absolute shite!
    Apart from the first 20 mins we were clueless. 
    How can we be so shite, after playing what was described as “The best football we’ve seen this season” by Charlton fans??
    Our shape of basically, 6 at the back, with 
    4 defenders, and 2 deep holding midfielders, works away from home, because the opposition attack you, and we hit them on the counterattack. 
    But at home, we can’t get up the pitch quick enough to support Bastón. 
    How many through balls, or crosses did he have to feed off, or shots at goal?
    Starting to doubt Cooper’s ability to change formations, especially at home. 
    Ayew and Celina playing as wingers?
    As soon as we took Fulton off, and added Byers as an attacking midfielder, our play improved. 
    Surety, SC has change the formation at least for the home games?




  • Pete said:
    The Banana skin i and others others forecast came to be, unfortunately ,  but we are still not in a bad place are we?
    The manager has stated he is upset at the way we played and i for one am hoping he sorts it out and quickly, for me January will be  a time when the owners will either back the guy or not, as i write we could and can be promoted with a little bit of new blood, wonder if we will get any?
    A bad day at the office but do not despair we could be watching and supporting a spurs team conceding 10 goals in 2 games.
    We bought in new blood in the summer that haven't been playing. It's not as if we're short of options, it's a big squad.
  • jasper_T said: 
    We bought in new blood in the summer that haven't been playing. It's not as if we're short of options, it's a big squad.

    We brought in an actual winger who looked to have good potential in Peterson, but Cooper seems to have got in a strop with him over some interview he did and has decided to blank him?
  • Some graphs and stats because I know you all like those.



    As I've been saying, we're very open, and defending has been of the last-ditch variety. Only 6 teams have conceded fewer attempts than us.

    https://experimental361.com/2019/10/06/scatter-graphics-championship-5-oct-2019/
    garythenotrashcougar
  • jasper_T said:
    moorlands said:

    I didn't see the game and had to put up with the usual poor commentary from the reserve commentator on BBC Wales who trots out the scores in other games, and advertises the evening phone-in programme time after time, rather than tell us what is happening on the pitch.However luckily Ian Walsh was alongside him and as usual made it bearable.Ian's overall comment was that Stoke wanted it more than we did,and well deserved the points on merit.
    "Wanted it more" talk about your cliches.

    Cliches or not, he said this several times throughout the second half, not just in the summary at the end.No reason  to quarrel with it he gives us enough praise when it's deserved.

    Pablo
  • rob_h said:
    jasper_T said: 
    We bought in new blood in the summer that haven't been playing. It's not as if we're short of options, it's a big squad.

    We brought in an actual winger who looked to have good potential in Peterson, but Cooper seems to have got in a strop with him over some interview he did and has decided to blank him?
    not true. SC has talked about him being in his long term plans, but also not being in peak physical shape. Please don't print rumours there are plenty who will run with it to undermine the manager
  • SeaJack said:
    I’ve read a post on Planetswans claiming that Joe Allen deserved a red. Can anyone confirm this?
    Bit of a tussle with VdH, Joe reacted with an arm.....not a red but possibly yellow
  • edited October 2019
    Pablo said: not true. SC has talked about him being in his long term plans, but also not being in peak physical shape. Please don't print rumours there are plenty who will run with it to undermine the manager

    Sorry Pablo, it's an opinion not a rumour.

    Cooper 'seems' to have got in a strop with Peterson to me, because he has completely left him out of the team since that article - I have based my 'opinion' on that.

     
  • rob_h said:
    Pablo said: not true. SC has talked about him being in his long term plans, but also not being in peak physical shape. Please don't print rumours there are plenty who will run with it to undermine the manager

    Sorry Pablo, it's an opinion not a rumour.

    Cooper 'seems' to have got in a strop with Peterson to me, because he has completely left him out of the team since that article - I have based my 'opinion' on that.

     
    yet SC  has spoken about Peterson and that opinion of yours, the article was mentioned and dismissed, he was adamant that Peterson will get his moment. just trying to quash a rumour and inform you as you might have missed it
  • Pablo said: 
    yet SC  has spoken about Peterson and that opinion of yours, the article was mentioned and dismissed, he was adamant that Peterson will get his moment. just trying to quash a rumour and inform you as you might have missed it

    There is nothing wrong with Petersons fitness levels as I see it, I have read and listened to Cooper talk about him , and I fully expected him to still be including him on the bench. The best way to get a player used to competing at championship level football is to give them some game time.

    Peterson will never improve now, he has been completely shunned, actions speak louder than words, Cooper does the interview, " Peterson is in my plans bla bla bla", then matchday he isn't included.

    I've seen it happen many times over the years, where a player is dropped because the manager doesn't rate them (for whatever reason), what gets to me is that Peterson hasn't been given the chance.
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